I think your right. FL is getting lazy while NXN is doing what they do best - marketing. Therefore many runners/teams/coaches/families are playing taps for FT (unfortunately)
I think your right. FL is getting lazy while NXN is doing what they do best - marketing. Therefore many runners/teams/coaches/families are playing taps for FT (unfortunately)
no one wrote:
I think your right. FL is getting lazy while NXN is doing what they do best - marketing. Therefore many runners/teams/coaches/families are playing taps for FT (unfortunately)
I know FL was never that big with promotion (especially compared to Nike's very aggressive marketing), but maybe the lack of FL promotion this year lends some credence to the rumor that they may be pulling the plug?
This thread has made a lot of valid points, but it is now starting to become a circle jerk. I am going to try and end this thread by removing the emotions and sentimentalities and deal with logic.
Like it are not, when Walmart comes to town the Mom and Pop operations have the option of either close up shop, find new markets or operate in some reduced manner. This is how the free market system works; Nike has come to town. Keep in mind that Nike and Footlocker are corporations and whether it is a product or service or in this case the hearts and minds of high school cross country runners, the consumer will ultimately decide what’s in their best interest. I watched the (NGB) national governing body for track & field move from the AAU, to the TAC to the USATF; obviously Nike and Footlocker are not NGBs, but it does speak to how ‘National Championships’ transition from one organization to another and how life goes on.
Things change, I watched Footlocker take over from Kinney Shoes; as a side note; Footlocker was once a division of Kinney Shoes. Perhaps FLNC and the NXN are on equal footing this year, but the momentum is clearly in NXN’s direction and the shift is happening so fast that this will likely be the last year of the FLNC as we currently know it. Perhaps there is still a role for Footlocker, similar to the ‘adidas’ Golden West Invitational, perhaps Footlocker becomes a class meet that brings together the best underclassmen, emerging elites or something along the lines of the college basketball NIT. There were various organizations that put on premier/pseudo national basketball tournaments, but the McDonalds all-star game is the defacto game where best high school athletes get together. This is a good example of a large corporation, with deep pockets and an interest, stepping in and doing something great for H.S. basketball; I see Nike doing the same thing in cross country. The best thing would have been for Nike and Footlocker to get married on H.S. cross country, but it didn’t happen. It is a long story why it didn’t happen, but it was not all Nike’s fault.
What we all wanted was something along the lines of an NCAA National Championship type meet and NXN is the closest thing to that. I have nothing but praise for what Footlocker has done for H.S. cross country over the years, but it is about to be over with. I was at the Nike meet when it was called NTN and it was an incredible experience for the kids and my understanding is it has gotten even better. Nike has put an enormous amount of resources into building NXN and by all accounts, has earned the reins. Think about this, at the end of the day, what we all want is to see is a fair selection process, the best individuals athletes and teams go head to head…with that in mind, it does not matter what we call the meet or who sponsors it.
If you go to Eastbay and click on Sports > Cross Country, there is a NXN ad. NXN ads can also be seen in the paper catalog. In case you forgot, Eastbay and Footlocker are one and the same. Weird...
The deviation from a men's NCAA team that ran in the championship race is less than on a H.S. team.In 2009, (unbelievably, I can't find 2010), the spread on Duke's men team, 1 through 7th, which finished 28th in the field of 31 was 50 seconds (31:04 - 31:53). For FlSt, 29th, it was 2:50 (30:30 - 33:19) and for the 31st team, MichSt, it was 65 seconds, (31:17 - 32:22). What would be the spread of the top 7 of a similar ranked hs team? I'm sure greater than those 3 teams. Typically, h.s. don't get the opportunity to recruit, (I realize many do) and the odds of getting 5 really talented kids on a team is very rare.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
If you look at the bottom 10 teams at NCAAs, most of them only have one All-American and then just a mediocre 2-5. Does that deserve to be at the national championship? If you ignored the team element of cross country at the college level, then Liberty University would have to be considered the most dominant running program in the NCAA in the past 4 years.
In the end, there can only be one true national championship. Nike is an improvement, which is why you see more and more individuals heading that way.
My issue right now with NXN is the volume of runners already at each regional, which I would expect to increase if NXN cout ntinues to assume dominance over FL.
At the regional meets this year, over 1900 boy runners ran the 8 different regions. That's already about 300 more than the NCAA has running in the regional meets. You can't really argue that there should be MORE regions, but maybe some sort of qualification system for the region meets.
One possibly good outcome scenario is 1) Footlocker & Nike would merge the HS XC race portions of their marketing efforts, 2) Convert it into a sports championships by empowering a national HS XC coaches association to administer and operate, and 3) Hold the final team and final individual races at media centers such as Dallas, Orlando, or San Diego.
If you go to Eastbay and click on Sports > Cross Country, there is a NXN ad. NXN ads can also be seen in the paper catalog. In case you forgot, Eastbay and Footlocker are one and the same. Weird...It's not weird. It's money. Whatever makes money is GOOD ! Footlocker and Nike are businesses who answer to their shareholders.
Most good HS boys teams- good enough to qualify for NXN would most likely have a 1 minute spread or less. At least, in NY to compete at the state level thats what you need.
Itll be intersting to look at the results of nxn for just that.
Traditional Media wrote:
One possibly good outcome scenario is 1) Footlocker & Nike would merge the HS XC race portions of their marketing efforts, 2) Convert it into a sports championships by empowering a national HS XC coaches association to administer and operate, and 3) Hold the final team and final individual races at media centers such as Dallas, Orlando, or San Diego.
NXN will have to go somewhere if the rumor about the facility that is used for the current course being sold is true.
If this is true, then there is an opening for a friendly merger. NXN needs a place to hold their up and coming/already arrived event, and FL needs to save their event!Problem solved, let's move on to the next crisis! :-)Not to open another can of worms, but the event is run better when keeping the coaches out of it. The corp types seem to know what they are doing.Before we empower the coaches to run administer anything, let them do away with distances that no one -- outside of US high schools -- uses, namely the 1600 and the 3200!
Thread Follower wrote:
Traditional Media wrote:One possibly good outcome scenario is 1) Footlocker & Nike would merge the HS XC race portions of their marketing efforts, 2) Convert it into a sports championships by empowering a national HS XC coaches association to administer and operate, and 3) Hold the final team and final individual races at media centers such as Dallas, Orlando, or San Diego.
NXN will have to go somewhere if the rumor about the facility that is used for the current course being sold is true.
The Foot Locker course could not handle a NXN sized race.
Maybe Uncle Phil will build a CC Course similar to what Wisconsin did and the meet could be moved to Knight Field.
If I were a high school star, I can't imagine choosing Portland over San Diego. The weather at NXN is almost always atrocious. Except of course if my team was going, then it's an easy choice for NXN. All the Nike perks and everything. Although FL gets to stay at the Hotel Del Coronado.
Bill Huntington wrote:
If I were a high school star, I can't imagine choosing Portland over San Diego. The weather at NXN is almost always atrocious. Except of course if my team was going, then it's an easy choice for NXN. All the Nike perks and everything. Although FL gets to stay at the Hotel Del Coronado.
Other exception is if you are from Southern California then San Diego is nothing special...
Bill Huntington wrote:
If I were a high school star, I can't imagine choosing Portland over San Diego. The weather at NXN is almost always atrocious. Except of course if my team was going, then it's an easy choice for NXN. All the Nike perks and everything. Although FL gets to stay at the Hotel Del Coronado.
The same for me, and I've been to San Diego many times.
Honestly I think Footlocker is doing great and doesn't need to do anything differently.
If I was still in high school and Nike tried to tell me I was letting them down by going to Footlocker Nationals, I'd sure as heck keep going to Footlocker Nationals!
It's an easy choice.
Also I must say that I've not ever been all that interested in the NX results and never have paid much attention to them.
I have been to both meets, three times to San Diego, nice vacation but it never felt like an xc race. As a coach you have almost no contact with your athlete. And the kids I have had qualify likes the experience, get treated well and meet lot's of great kids, but just not the running experience you would expect.
The NXN meet feels like xc all the way, it is all about the race. The kids are pumped and treated equally as well as the FL meet, they get better stuff from Nike than the FL meet. Nike builds it up so that they know that they are there to race, not to surf. And, the coach is included not excluded, sort of nice considering as a coach you are there every step of the way leading up to it.
NXN was a much better experience from a running perspective.
Im a coach and Ive never met a coach who likes the 1600 and 3200. Is it the coaches who made this decision? Not anyone I know. In NY it made by someone when they first went metric in 1979 or so.
I would love to see the 1500 and 3000 become boys events, too.
But don't some states do 1600 and 3200 for girls, too?
I've been to dozens of FLN, NXN, USAXC, WXC, Euro XCs. FL Nats feels like World XC to me. Teams are there but it's individual racing for titles like the kids will have to find out in a few months when in college. The Hotel Coronado has the atmosphere of WXC where everyone is cordial and the place is hopping. NXN places too much value on gear which is really worthless Chinese junk. FLN is held in a tourist spot where kids and coaches bring their families for 1 to 2 week vacations. NXN is horrible, people arrive as solitary souls to a cold, wet, and dank depressing meth laden town, and after the race rush to the airport to get the hell out.
Mee Too wrote:
I've been to dozens of FLN, NXN, USAXC, WXC, Euro XCs. FL Nats feels like World XC to me. Teams are there but it's individual racing for titles like the kids will have to find out in a few months when in college. The Hotel Coronado has the atmosphere of WXC where everyone is cordial and the place is hopping. NXN places too much value on gear which is really worthless Chinese junk. FLN is held in a tourist spot where kids and coaches bring their families for 1 to 2 week vacations. NXN is horrible, people arrive as solitary souls to a cold, wet, and dank depressing meth laden town, and after the race rush to the airport to get the hell out.
Are you kidding? Or just a Footlocker Employee? Chinese junk?
First, the Hotel Coronado is full of tourists, absolutely no running atmosphere.
Second, NXN is all about running from the get go, check into the Hotle with your team banner on the railing, board the bus to Nike to run and get your gear, hang in the Tiger Woods Building with all the teams, playing games and mingling with the pro runners.
Third, Portland is a beatiful city, great view of Mt. Hood, Columbia River, great neighborhoods, the year I was there the weather was great, the last time I was at Footlocker it was cold and gray.
FL is done, sorry, face it.
0/10.
NXN doesn't have much on the girls side, in terms of the top runners, but it does have a good selection on the boys side.
How many of the top boys who are running NXN are not on a team that qualified (so they pretty much have to go to NXN vs. FL)? Not many, I think.