Eddie Hellebuyck "'Yeah,' he says, 'I did it.'"

Back to Bob and Dave Holt. They had similar pbs, but Bob had slighter faster ones - like 13.48/28.39 compared with 13.50/28.44. And once again, despite the extra '5' miles Dave ran every lunchtime, while Bob was in the office canteen eating a typical British 'meat and two veg.'

Eddy, on the other hand, did not worry so much about diet, because he had a very fast metabolism. Similar to Bill Rodgers in his heydey.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

, apply today.

'One needs to hold a balanced view of these things'

You are missing the whole point about sports.

As an examples men may fiddle there expenses. But millions of people are not watching them as a hobby.

Nobody has to watch and all these dopers are ruining the sport for serious athletics and turning off the casual viewers without whom the sport will not be financially viable

People say oh look at football (soccer) players diving etc to cheat. Yes, but the referee is stood right there watching them. The drug testing 'referee' is not constantly watching a runner - he just glances over every couple of months

The current drug penalties are insufficient to deter cheats and apologists like ghost are not helping. The 2 year ban should be increased to 4 as a minumum. 2nd offence life ban

The only reason I still follow athletics is because in male long distance running there has never been a real top elite champion EA athlete (especially Ethiopian) busted for doping. If that changes I would just give it up

Most people who have used EPO extensively and for prolonged periods usually suffer from secondary problems, like high blood pressure, high viscosity of blood content, and other conditions leading the hyper tension and blood clotting. Many die from strokes.

One remembers the large number of Flemish and Dutch cyclists who lost their lives, prematurely, in the early 90s, following continued EPO use.

Going by the above, it is sensible to think that Eddy was not a heavy user, as he is still showing very good health and form these days.

This is not to condone what he did, but in comparison to others, it was on a much lower scale.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

, apply today.

ghost wrote:

Going by the above, it is sensible to think that Eddy was not a heavy user, as he is still showing very good health and form these days.

You've got to be kidding me! This is your logic? You never cease to amaze!

How do you know his 'very good health and form these days'? Were you in the room at his most recent physical? Did you chat him up last week about how he's feeling in the mornings?

OK, I have to admit it: I now check this each morning purely for the humor content- each morning I wonder can there be another wierd claim or twisted chain of reasoning from this ghost guy, and sure enough, there is. This could be just beautiful trolling- and if so, it is entertaining, so well done. But I somehow think ghost believes all these baffling contradictions: he's a very moral guy, who cheated for years at a time. He didn't have to cheat, but then clearly had a resurgence in his career during his doping. He'll surely pay back his misbegotton winnings, because....? He must not have used much because he's not hypertensive or having hyperviscous blood, but of course those things can't be seen, they need to be measured. And then these soliliquies about the great welsh and irish club runners who trained hard and drank hard, and were good old lads, and have exactly nothing to do with Eddy H. cheating. Good stuff. Can't wait for tomorrow's installment.

How old are you ghost you seem to know a lot about uk athletes from the past?

You must be even older than me!

My age is a secret, but it is similar to Sebastian Coe, my hero.

With regard to the health status of Eddy - as most people know, to work in any educational setting in the U.S. and by default, Canada, teachers have to be in good physical and moral health. There is no room for lemons. And Eddy must have passed all his physicals. In most U.S. states 'character checks' are also taken very seriously, so Eddy must have passed those as well, showing him to be of decent morality.

The point I was making about the EPO is that he most likely was not a heavy user. Look at all the cyclists who were heavy users - people like Fignon and Pantani - they are now, both dead at young ages. Fignon passed away very tragically this past summer, just a few days after commentating for French t.v. on the 'Tour de France' - it was a brave gesture, who admitted in his book, that doping was normal and inevitable in cycling. He also pointed to Greg Lemond as being a 'cheater' for using the unautherized special 'triathlon' type handlebars, when beaten by Lemond in the Tour de France. Did not Lemond also contract cancer? Hmmmm?

In running, though, everyone expects everyone to be of a higher moral standard. Fignon was revered and all of France cried this summer when their hero passed away. No mention of his EPO use was mentioned, only the great contributions he made to 'La France' and his fair play. The same goes for Virenque when he admitted his use of EPO on national t.v. He cried and France cried with him. It is called 'having a heart'.

Once again - not condoning what Eddy did, but if you measure a 'crime' by the depth of involvement, then Eddy could not have been very much involved.

Eddy also ran in several Olympic, World Championships and European Championships, and never tested 'positive' at any of those. Thank you.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

, apply today.

ghost wrote:

With regard to the health status of Eddy - as most people know, to work in any educational setting in the U.S. and by default, Canada, teachers have to be in good physical and moral health. There is no room for lemons. And Eddy must have passed all his physicals. In most U.S. states 'character checks' are also taken very seriously, so Eddy must have passed those as well, showing him to be of decent morality.

Yeah and he was in good moral health as a cheater and distributor of alcohol to minors while at La Cueva High right? Thus the reason he was fired.

Your comment about epo users dying from stroke also proves just how little you know about the drug, its use, its users, and its effects. Users and abusers of epo do not die years later from stroke and blood viscosity problems. They die during their use because they boost their hematocrit too high, thus making their blood become very thick. Combine very thick blood with low resting heart rates and they die in their sleep, from stroke, etc.

It doesnt happen years later. If one doped to a 65 hematocrit, which would be incredibly thick blood, it wouldnt mean that they have thick blood forever. a week or so after they stop using they will see a very rapid drop in their hct if they arent using any maintanence methods like microdosing, high iron dosing, altitude tent, etc. Within a month they could have an extremely low hct getting even below normal due to the body no producing as much endogenous epo as usual because it is use to exogeneous administration. The blood pressure wont stay high forever either.

guys that take viagra experience high blood pressure when using the the drug as well, but as soon as they stop taking their blood pressure returns to normal within a week or so after the last pill.

what do you say to the fact that eddy stole money from the athletes he housed, often requiring them to pay for travel to races and lodging even when money was given to eddy and shawn to cover those expenses, or hotels were comped and eddy said that he paid for them?

Or the fact that he stole their shoes sent from companies, saying they never arrived, even when the athletes called the companies and were told they were signed for by Shawn or Eddy himself?

If there was a chance to be a dishonest scum, Eddy and Shawn were. They took every chance they could get and even developed elaborate schemes to cheat people even more.

Ghost, answer this: Why do you continue to protect Eddy? what did he do for you? He has been proven to not be a moral upstanding individual, even while coaching in Arizona.

you also dont get much of a benefit by using only a little bit of epo. You have to use 9-12k iu for each 1% hematocrit boost. you're not going to see much performance benefit from a 1% hematocrit boost. Also, to test positive you have to be tested within 72 hrs of your last injection if you did it subcutaneous and if done via IV injection then within 17-24 hrs, otherwise it is undetectable. The time of detection lessens dramatically if done via IV and with microdoses.

Ghost, you also say he couldnt have been into it much? He was into it so deeply that he couldnt even keep from using during his short stay at the olympic training center. He was so morally f***ed that he was using while at the olympic training center. That just proves he thought he was above everyone.

ghost wrote:

With regard to the health status of Eddy - as most people know, to work in any educational setting in the U.S. and by default, Canada, teachers have to be in good physical and moral health. There is no room for lemons.

Ahh, I'm getting addicted. I truly have no clue how you get some of these things...

First- There is no overarching standard as to what you need to work in an "educational setting" in the US. Schools are under local control, and at least here in MN, no physical is required (verified with a HS teacher and cc couch).

Second- so you made up a US policy, how is it "ny default" that Canada does the same? You are aware that they are 2 different countries? Just bizarre...

And finally...any world class runner can pass a physical!!! I'm a doctor- physicals are not some magic test that gaurantee the abscence of any disease. There are all sorts of things that can't be found by an exam, and are not routinely tested for. EPO, HGH, steroids, clenbuterol, blood doping, all of those would NEVER EVER be found on a routine pre-employment physical (again, were they even done for schools). The hypertention you seem to think is always associated with EPO- that's a rare side effect. Viscosity? Not measured for routine purposes. And as someone else said, all of these effects go away when the drug is withdrawn.

And really finally, "character checks" are something I go through working in a hospital- it's actually a criminal background check, and I would hope you recognize that plenty of people with deep moral flaws have never been convicted of a crime. Using your logic, we could take every teacher/coach/counselor accussed of wrong-doing (and there are always some): and say "they work in a school, so they must have passed a character test, and thus be of decent morality." Sure. Well, keep 'em coming. Not sure why, but I find each round of excuses funnier and funnier.

ghost wrote:

With regard to the health status of Eddy - as most people know, to work in any educational setting in the U.S. and by default, Canada, teachers have to be in good physical and moral health. There is no room for lemons. And Eddy must have passed all his physicals. In most U.S. states 'character checks' are also taken very seriously, so Eddy must have passed those as well, showing him to be of decent morality.

. . .

He also pointed to Greg Lemond as being a 'cheater' for using the unautherized special 'triathlon' type handlebars, when beaten by Lemond in the Tour de France. Did not Lemond also contract cancer? Hmmmm?

Please keep posting. This is all very amusing.

Avocados Number wrote:

Please keep posting. This is all very amusing.

It's a bizarre train wreck of invented facts, twisted logic, and moral obfucation. Yet, somehow, I can't look away.

Ghost, you have ignored my question before, so I am asking it again...Why do you think Eddy has any intent to return any of the money he took from other athletes? What efforts has he made in this area?

Mr. Obvious wrote:

Why do you think Eddy has any intent to return any of the money he stole from other athletes?

Fixed.

(And also notice how ghost specifically ignores the pointed, definitive questions and just waxes poetically and at length for the more vague ones?)

Once again, that is a complex area. The 'experts' would have to go back to the dates when Eddy was supposedly doped, and then work out when and where he took the EPO and how long the beneficial effects lasted. That would be a rather monumental task. Most lawyers would find this an unusual case, because there are many intangibles and uncertainties.

My original point, and you can pick this up from the article, is that Eddy is trying to turn his life around and do good again. His passion for running is undiminished, and this passion and his charisma work wonders for his charges who run their hearts out for him. Yes, many of them do not know about his past, but that is an episode he has put behind him. He is helping kids now, and surely should be given credit for that. Most of those high school positions are basically voluntary and no money comes into it....just per diems for travel to meets. Eddy is not the greedy person some people suggest.

Let's give this man (Eddy) a break and let him get on with his life. There are kids in Tucson who need him now and that is admirable. Most runners are only inward directed - "me, me, me" - Eddy has shown you can be a top runner and still give back a lot. I think he would have no problem refunding some of the winnings, if accurate checks could be made. One can deduce this from all the time he devotes in his present coaching duties. Remember in the U.S. "time is money" - especially for a business savvy guy like Hellebuyck.

I think the tales about Eddy ripping off his guests for their shoes and such are pure exaggeration. Why would a man who had as many shoes as you and I have hot dinners, want to do that? Also the French guys from the Marseille club (SCO St Marguerite) who trained under Eddy, improved greatly, in the late 90s, including my friend - Abdelghani Zouad, who went from 31.30 to 29.00 in the space of a year, without any illegal stuff.

Proven, as he was always tested in France at the major champs. Zouad, is a fervent Muslim, and has sworn "wa allah" "on his mother's head" that he has never taken anything. Believe me, when a Muslim says that, one has to take it seriously. It is 'haram' (deeply forbidden, and Allah is witness) for Muslims to lie with their mother in perspective.

I'm not saying that lying is impossible for Muslims, but Zouad is a legitimate guy. The point is, Eddy helped this guy reach another level legitimately. Read the article carefully, and you will see that Eddy never pushed anyone to take anything, and if someone did, Eddy would not have known about it.

Ghost in Saudi,

www.kfupm.edu.sa

, apply today

This is AWESOME trolling. Thank you! I was having a rough day here. I needed the belly laugh. Awesome troll job, keep it up! :)

No, only you are trying to obfuscate and make it complex.

No experts required. Just Eddy looking at the calendar when he started cheating, adding up all the winnings from that date until he was caught (or stopped cheating if it was after he was caught) and there you have your total. It's a black or white issue, no shades of gray (no matter how much you keep trying to blow smoke at it). Remember, Eddy is a very business savvy guy and wouldn't be wasting his money on EPO or other drugs when he didn't believe they would be helping him in his next race.

So he can prove that by returning the stolen money.

Any reason why he should get a break before we give a break to those he stole from?

You do realize that Eddy himself admits to passing tests at major champs while he was cheating?

Yes, you have a lot of credibility in this matter and so when you say "believe me", one can't help but believe you. Sure. Absolutely. Just like your fine, morally upstanding Eddy would never lie about having cheated for years and years, even after he was caught. Right. Got it.

ghost wrote:

Once again, that is a complex area. The 'experts' would have to go back to the dates when Eddy was supposedly doped, and then work out when and where he took the EPO and how long the beneficial effects lasted. That would be a rather monumental task. Most lawyers would find this an unusual case, because there are many intangibles and uncertainties.

So he is waiting for somebody to sue him or develop evidence admissable in the state of law? Awesome. Thanks for the response.

People who are truly sorry for what they have done usually don't have to be coerced or sued to make amends. Eddy knows which races he cheated for. He can do it all on his own.

At least we have a clear answer form you. No, there is no evidence at all that Eddy has paid back any money or has any intention of doing so.

I'm sure you will post another winding soliloquy in response to this responding as to how the case in not nearly that simple. I can't wait for the next installment from you.

ghost wrote:

Also the French guys from the Marseille club (SCO St Marguerite) who trained under Eddy, improved greatly, in the late 90s, including my friend - Abdelghani Zouad, who went from 31.30 to 29.00 in the space of a year, without any illegal stuff.

Proven, as he was always tested in France at the major champs. Zouad, is a fervent Muslim, and has sworn "wa allah" "on his mother's head" that he has never taken anything. Believe me, when a Muslim says that, one has to take it seriously. It is 'haram' (deeply forbidden, and Allah is witness) for Muslims to lie with their mother in perspective.

Ghost, you are a fool. To say Zouad never took anything is rediculous. There are many muslim athletes in the albuquerque area that say otherwise. proven because he was tested at the major champs? he would have to be an idiot to be taking an injection within 5 days of any major race. Plus anyone who knows anything about epo knows that since your body is building red blood cells it tires you out. You stop a week out from major events so you feel refreshed and the new red blood cells have time to develop and be able to carry oxygen.

I strongly encourage you to stop posting, your foolishness and ignorance is not doing you well here. Any intelligent comment you may have in the future on this site will be severely deminished because of your severe lack of intelligence on this topic. I understand you may have loose ties to some of the individuals talked about in this thread, but take the blinders of you eyes. Eddy was a cheat, is a cheat, was a scum, is a scum, always has been a liar, and always will be.

Your friend Zouad was a doper. Deal with it. Cathal Lombard was a doper deal with it. The proof is not doing your argument any good. Benoit...busted, eddy...busted, Deeja...busted, and those are just the ones officially caught.

You can say someone passed a test all you want, but it is harder to fail a test than it is to pass. Those who have admitted and finally been caught over the years have proved this.

As for the stealing that Eddy did towards the athletes he housed, it is not arguable. It was published and you can enquire directly from Saucony as well as with many of the athletes that stayed with him.

You should be able to get into contact with them, you are friends with all of them remember?