1) Jane's last kilometer was much slower today than at Pre-Nats. 2) Other runners finished much closer to Jane today than before. 3) Jane said her legs felt sluggish. 4) Jane's coach admitted they ran hard at Regionals.
How much much data do you need to believe me? If Jane runs closer to Doris at BU, will you believe me then? Or will you still be in denial?
You know nothing about high level competition and far less about statistics.
1. The entire field went out very fast so of course many slowed down with some exceptions.
2. Maybe they had a great day. Why is the only reason you think they finished closer is because JH ran 40 seconds faster than you thought she should 8 days ago? Why do you not consider any of the other people? Only JH's performance is a variable to you, everyone else's performance is static.
3. Yes. And the ONLY possible reason for her legs feeling sluggish to you is because of the singular data point 8 days ago.
4. Yes, lots of teams ran hard. Why is JH the only one that had their race 8 days later impacted by regionals?
Is it possible that JH ran too hard at regionals and she suffered for it today? Of course it is. But you can't know that because you only consider one person and one race 8 days ago and treat every other variable as static.
You need to learn about the convergence of data in research. When multiple forms of data are in congruence, you need to pay attention to it.
You forgot to answer my question. If Jane runs closer to Doris at BU, will you believe me then? Or will you still be in denial?
Doris proved she is a level above, at least. I don't think she was even working that hard to beat her. If she goes to Europe next summer and runs 14:10s, I wouldn't be shocked in any way. However, it is arguable that the OP was right that Jane ran regionals too hard and therefore was tired today and did not run quite to her potential. Diljeet Taylor said she had been told that very thing by Jane--that her legs felt tired today. The differential between Jane and the others here and at regionals and pre-Nats and conference says that is true.
Finally, someone else is willing to be reasonable. Thank you.
You need to learn about the convergence of data in research. When multiple forms of data are in congruence, you need to pay attention to it.
You forgot to answer my question. If Jane runs closer to Doris at BU, will you believe me then? Or will you still be in denial?
Paragraph 1: You know nothing about data.
Paragraph 2: I would suggest that the BU 5k in indoor track has no relevance to JH's performance in the NCAA Cross Country championships based on how fast she ran the regional race 8 days prior.
How can you seriously think a race in the future has any bearing on how they performed today? Time is linear Begonia.
your argument doesn't work. you're claiming she ran "too fast" at tegionals without admitting the winning time today was 4 seconds faster than when she ran too fast.
You need to learn about the convergence of data in research. When multiple forms of data are in congruence, you need to pay attention to it.
You forgot to answer my question. If Jane runs closer to Doris at BU, will you believe me then? Or will you still be in denial?
Paragraph 1: You know nothing about data.
Paragraph 2: I would suggest that the BU 5k in indoor track has no relevance to JH's performance in the NCAA Cross Country championships based on how fast she ran the regional race 8 days prior.
How can you seriously think a race in the future has any bearing on how they performed today? Time is linear Begonia.
You didn't answer any of my questions either.
I know more than you, and I answered your questions. Since you won't answer mine, I'll just thank you for admitting this:
"Is it possible that JH ran too hard at regionals and she suffered for it today? Of course it is."
i have my times confused but the point is hedengren's fastest 6k was conference -- not regionals -- and that would be 4 seconds short of lemengole's winning time today.
I know more than you, and I answered your questions. Since you won't answer mine, I'll just thank you for admitting this:
"Is it possible that JH ran too hard at regionals and she suffered for it today? Of course it is."
Here are my questions I posted earlier that you ignored. Pro Tip: Anything with a question mark.
1. The entire field went out very fast so of course many slowed down with some exceptions. 2. Maybe they had a great day. Why is the only reason you think they finished closer is because JH ran 40 seconds faster than you thought she should 8 days ago? Why do you not consider any of the other people? Only JH's performance is a variable to you, everyone else's performance is static. 3. Yes. And the ONLY possible reason for her legs feeling sluggish to you is because of the singular data point 8 days ago. 4. Yes, lots of teams ran hard. Why is JH the only one that had their race 8 days later impacted by regionals?
i have my times confused but the point is hedengren's fastest 6k was conference -- not regionals -- and that would be 4 seconds short of lemengole's winning time today.
The time comparison you're after is Pre-Nats. We discussed it a few pages back.
Here are my questions I posted earlier that you ignored. Pro Tip: Anything with a question mark.
1. The entire field went out very fast so of course many slowed down with some exceptions. 2. Maybe they had a great day. Why is the only reason you think they finished closer is because JH ran 40 seconds faster than you thought she should 8 days ago? Why do you not consider any of the other people? Only JH's performance is a variable to you, everyone else's performance is static. 3. Yes. And the ONLY possible reason for her legs feeling sluggish to you is because of the singular data point 8 days ago. 4. Yes, lots of teams ran hard. Why is JH the only one that had their race 8 days later impacted by regionals?
Thank you. Missing those questions was an unintended oversight on my part.
2. I did consider other people. That's what I'm explaining to you. When we consider other people Jane has raced before, we can see they finished closer to Jane today than in their prior races.
4. Jane's extreme margin of victory at Regionals suggests she ran harder than others.
That's all for tonight. I must now get ready to attend a soiree with my lady.
While I'm away, I ask that everyone reading this thread make a list of all the young track and cross country runners you know. Plan to have a conversation with them about the lesson that can be learned from Jane's mistake at Regionals. Make sure young athletes understand the importance of not overly exerting themselves in qualifying races. Help them realize there aren't any bonus points for winning a qualifying race by 40 seconds as opposed to 4 seconds. Remind them they need to conserve their energy for the final so they can put forth their best possible performance when it actually matters. If each of us does our part by talking to the young runners we know, we can make a big difference in the sport.
As a runner myself I want to point out that each time when it is a serious race or even a workout that counts as a test for your running ability you want to go as hard as you can because it gives you that feeling how it feels to run at that pace and that effort. You cannot teach yourself that feeling without actually trying. It will prepare you for the next step when you feel you could go even faster but it doesn't work like that to improve in every race. Some days you don't feel as sharp as other days. You just do your best you can on the day of the race but running hard each time is part of elevating your game to the next level.
i have my times confused but the point is hedengren's fastest 6k was conference -- not regionals -- and that would be 4 seconds short of lemengole's winning time today.
But they are different courses, so that type of comparison is pointless.
1) Jane's last kilometer was much slower today than at Pre-Nats. 2) Other runners finished much closer to Jane today than before. 3) Jane said her legs felt sluggish. 4) Jane's coach admitted they ran hard at Regionals.
How much much data do you need to believe me? If Jane runs closer to Doris at BU, will you believe me then? Or will you still be in denial?
Let's see Coach Henes completely rests both Hartman and Engelhardt at regional, while Coach Taylor runs Hedengren and Macchia hard at regional.
Thank you. Missing those questions was an unintended oversight on my part.
2. I did consider other people. That's what I'm explaining to you. When we consider other people Jane has raced before, we can see they finished closer to Jane today than in their prior races.
4. Jane's extreme margin of victory at Regionals suggests she ran harder than others.
Ok, but that didn't even come close to addressing my questions. Like, you didn't even try. You just repeated what you already said and ignored what I said. I know you are trolling, so we'll done - you win.
As a runner myself I want to point out that each time when it is a serious race or even a workout that counts as a test for your running ability you want to go as hard as you can because it gives you that feeling how it feels to run at that pace and that effort. You cannot teach yourself that feeling without actually trying. It will prepare you for the next step when you feel you could go even faster but it doesn't work like that to improve in every race. Some days you don't feel as sharp as other days. You just do your best you can on the day of the race but running hard each time is part of elevating your game to the next level.
I agree that simulating race pace and effort is helpful for a bit. But from gun to tape in a prelim? Bad idea.
That's all for tonight. I must now get ready to attend a soiree with my lady.
While I'm away, I ask that everyone reading this thread make a list of all the young track and cross country runners you know. Plan to have a conversation with them about the lesson that can be learned from Jane's mistake at Regionals. Make sure young athletes understand the importance of not overly exerting themselves in qualifying races. Help them realize there aren't any bonus points for winning a qualifying race by 40 seconds as opposed to 4 seconds. Remind them they need to conserve their energy for the final so they can put forth their best possible performance when it actually matters. If each of us does our part by talking to the young runners we know, we can make a big difference in the sport.
Good night.
I recant this request. On our way to our shindig last night, I discussed it with my better half. She advised me that one runner should not be made an example of. I agree. It's still a good idea to caution young runners not to overly exert themselves in a prelim, but we can draw from many examples of this happening. We don't need to pick just one.