You can't even figure out if theft is wrong, and now you're arguing this?
Well, "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power" sound pretty subjective to me. Which higher power's code of ethics? What is in and what is not in the higher power ethics code? Which one of his many ethics codes and how much of it should be adopted? Oral/verbal ethics codes handed down from the higher power or only written ones? How do we know what the ethics codes cover? How many ethical code judges and administrators will we need to determine what the codes cover? How do we know this ethics code originated from a higher power, rather than just being relayed to us as legend? The answers to those questions and many more are all saturated with awful degrees of subjectivity.
Do you have an example of a society that follows "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power"? They only ones I can think of are Iran and Taliban Afghanistan. Yes, their morality is arguably objective, but both places are total sh!tholes.
Jesus summarized the laws: "Love the Lord thy God with all you heart, all your soul and all your mind..and Love thy neighbor as thyself."
If you truly love the Lord you'll do what's right.
Ya got me. No subjectivity in that standard at all.
From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel).
3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near.
Yes, but also consider Matthew 24:34. There, someone wrote down that Jesus Christ once said "Truly I tell you, THIS generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Note the emphasis on "this" and "all."
That apocalyptic prediction attributed to Jesus Christ obviously did not come true as promised. The generation that Jesus Christ was speaking to and referring to has long passed away, and the predicted return of the "Son of Man" (Matthew 24:30-31), and many of the other predicted events, never happened. It is not difficult to consider Jesus Christ as any more than a false prophet in view of his alleged words in Matthew 24:34.
This puts into play the credibility of all words attributed to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Realizing this fundamental flaw in the story, Christians have gone to absurd lengths trying to change the meaning of Matthew 24:34, most claiming "THIS generation" doesn't mean the very people Jesus Christ happened to be speaking to at that moment. Rather, according to Christian apologetics, he was referring to some other unidentified generation. "This" does not really mean "this" and "all" does not really mean "all" and Jesus was referring to basically any other non-dead generation one can imagine other than the one that is specifically mentioned in the book. Uh huh.
If one is interested in observing the wildest circular logic, tautologies, and mental gymnastics that Christians will go through to defend their holy book, engage them in discussion of Matthew 24:34.
Really??? The whole census business was just a means of force fitting Jesus into the Messiah prophecies. Being born in Nazareth would mean either the prophecies were wrong or Jesus was not the Messiah. The simple fix is to come up with a reason to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.
Can you list any government decree, from any nation, from any time period that has forced its citizens to return to their ancestral birthplace?
Put another way, if the USA were to apply these rules to the next census then every White, Black, Hispanic and Asian would have to leave the USA as their ancestral homelands are not the USA. Remember King Davis was born 1000 years before Christ. Where were your ancestors living 1000 years ago?
Alternatively, if the government required that they return to their first ancestral location in the USA then Ellis Island would sink under the weight as more than 40% (over 100 million) of all living Americans can trace their roots to an ancestor who came through Ellis Island.
It only appears to be a "force fit" if you somehow know that it didn't happen that way. You just want a justification for your position.
The Jews of Jesus' time were not disbursed around the world. El Al didn't exist back then.
“The Jews under Roman Rule: From Pompey to Diocletian”, E. Mary Smallwood, 2001
Prominent Jewish communities are found in Sardis, Halicarnassus, Miletus, Laodicea, Apamea, Pergamum, Adramyttium and Ancrya in the first century B.C., and groups at Pisidian Antioch, Iconium and Tarsus in southern Asia Minor in the following century. Crete, Cyprus, Rhodes and some of the Aegean islands may have had Jewish settlers by the mid-second century B.C., and there were substantial communities on Crete, Delos, Cos and Melos a century later. For mainland Greece the evidence is scantier, but Philo speaks of Jews living on all parts of the country in his day and communities are recorded in Macedonia at the time.
“An immigrant neighborhood in ancient Rome”, Urban History, Vol 47, No. 1, 2019
Cicero stressed the group’s size, cohesion and political clout: ‘You see how great their numbers are, how they stick together, what weight they carry in public meetings.’ He this depicted the Jews of Rome as an organized constituency engaged in the capital’s civic life, while remaining connected to the Jewish community across the Mediterranean. Similarly, the biographer Suetonius reported that the Jewish community came out en masse for several nights in a row to pray for Julius Caesar after his assassination in 44 BCE. … Although precise numbers are impossible to determine, by the turn of the first millennium there were perhaps 40,000 Jews living in Rome: a mix of slaves, freedmen, freeborn migrants and native-born citizens with full political rights.
You’re arguing that all of the above would have had to have dragged themselves back to their ancestor’s home land, despite there being not one bit of evidence for such a disruptive forced and temporary migration.
You can't even figure out if theft is wrong, and now you're arguing this?
Well, "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power" sound pretty subjective to me. Which higher power's code of ethics? What is in and what is not in the higher power ethics code? Which one of his many ethics codes and how much of it should be adopted? Oral/verbal ethics codes handed down from the higher power or only written ones? How do we know what the ethics codes cover? How many ethical code judges and administrators will we need to determine what the codes cover? How do we know this ethics code originated from a higher power, rather than just being relayed to us as legend? The answers to those questions and many more are all saturated with awful degrees of subjectivity.
Do you have an example of a society that follows "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power"? They only ones I can think of are Iran and Taliban Afghanistan. Yes, their morality is arguably objective, but both places are total sh!tholes.
Jesus summarized the laws: "Love the Lord thy God with all you heart, all your soul and all your mind..and Love thy neighbor as thyself."
If you truly love the Lord you'll do what's right.
Those laws that "Jesus summarized" are explicity written in the Bible that predates his existence. It was also summarized by many others around the same time.
From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel).
3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near.
Yes, but also consider Matthew 24:34. There, someone wrote down that Jesus Christ once said "Truly I tell you, THIS generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Note the emphasis on "this" and "all."
That apocalyptic prediction attributed to Jesus Christ obviously did not come true as promised. The generation that Jesus Christ was speaking to and referring to has long passed away, and the predicted return of the "Son of Man" (Matthew 24:30-31), and many of the other predicted events, never happened. It is not difficult to consider Jesus Christ as any more than a false prophet in view of his alleged words in Matthew 24:34.
This puts into play the credibility of all words attributed to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Realizing this fundamental flaw in the story, Christians have gone to absurd lengths trying to change the meaning of Matthew 24:34, most claiming "THIS generation" doesn't mean the very people Jesus Christ happened to be speaking to at that moment. Rather, according to Christian apologetics, he was referring to some other unidentified generation. "This" does not really mean "this" and "all" does not really mean "all" and Jesus was referring to basically any other non-dead generation one can imagine other than the one that is specifically mentioned in the book. Uh huh.
If one is interested in observing the wildest circular logic, tautologies, and mental gymnastics that Christians will go through to defend their holy book, engage them in discussion of Matthew 24:34.
You seem so open minded...I'm surprised this is difficult for you. This is why we need a Church founded by Jesus beginning with the Apostles to explain the meaning. The generation referred to both the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as well as the future generation at the end of time. Many biblical events foreshadow future events.
Here's a supreme example. Jesus was crucified, died and rose from the dead. He now lives in the lives of those in a state of grace in His Church. This BODY of CHRIST, the Church, will suffer, seemingly die and resurrect. We're experiencing that Passion now.
Yes, but also consider Matthew 24:34. There, someone wrote down that Jesus Christ once said "Truly I tell you, THIS generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Note the emphasis on "this" and "all."
That apocalyptic prediction attributed to Jesus Christ obviously did not come true as promised. The generation that Jesus Christ was speaking to and referring to has long passed away, and the predicted return of the "Son of Man" (Matthew 24:30-31), and many of the other predicted events, never happened. It is not difficult to consider Jesus Christ as any more than a false prophet in view of his alleged words in Matthew 24:34.
This puts into play the credibility of all words attributed to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Realizing this fundamental flaw in the story, Christians have gone to absurd lengths trying to change the meaning of Matthew 24:34, most claiming "THIS generation" doesn't mean the very people Jesus Christ happened to be speaking to at that moment. Rather, according to Christian apologetics, he was referring to some other unidentified generation. "This" does not really mean "this" and "all" does not really mean "all" and Jesus was referring to basically any other non-dead generation one can imagine other than the one that is specifically mentioned in the book. Uh huh.
If one is interested in observing the wildest circular logic, tautologies, and mental gymnastics that Christians will go through to defend their holy book, engage them in discussion of Matthew 24:34.
You seem so open minded...I'm surprised this is difficult for you. This is why we need a Church founded by Jesus beginning with the Apostles to explain the meaning. The generation referred to both the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as well as the future generation at the end of time. Many biblical events foreshadow future events.
Here's a supreme example. Jesus was crucified, died and rose from the dead. He now lives in the lives of those in a state of grace in His Church. This BODY of CHRIST, the Church, will suffer, seemingly die and resurrect. We're experiencing that Passion now.
The Gospels were written well after Jesus had died with ample time to incorporate crucial events like the destruction of the Temple. It makes as much sense to believe that Jesus was resurrected because the Bible says so as it does to believe that Muhammed split the moon in two because the Quran says so.
Yes, but also consider Matthew 24:34. There, someone wrote down that Jesus Christ once said "Truly I tell you, THIS generation will certainly not pass away until ALL these things have happened." Note the emphasis on "this" and "all."
That apocalyptic prediction attributed to Jesus Christ obviously did not come true as promised. The generation that Jesus Christ was speaking to and referring to has long passed away, and the predicted return of the "Son of Man" (Matthew 24:30-31), and many of the other predicted events, never happened. It is not difficult to consider Jesus Christ as any more than a false prophet in view of his alleged words in Matthew 24:34.
This puts into play the credibility of all words attributed to Jesus Christ in the New Testament. Realizing this fundamental flaw in the story, Christians have gone to absurd lengths trying to change the meaning of Matthew 24:34, most claiming "THIS generation" doesn't mean the very people Jesus Christ happened to be speaking to at that moment. Rather, according to Christian apologetics, he was referring to some other unidentified generation. "This" does not really mean "this" and "all" does not really mean "all" and Jesus was referring to basically any other non-dead generation one can imagine other than the one that is specifically mentioned in the book. Uh huh.
If one is interested in observing the wildest circular logic, tautologies, and mental gymnastics that Christians will go through to defend their holy book, engage them in discussion of Matthew 24:34.
You seem so open minded...I'm surprised this is difficult for you. This is why we need a Church founded by Jesus beginning with the Apostles to explain the meaning.
You seem so open minded, Father Fuentes. I'm surprised this is difficult for you.
"Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened." Matthew 24:34 (Mng. Ver. II) (emphasis added).
Jesus Christ is speaking to people included in "this generation." They all passed away, long ago. "All these things" recounted in Matthew previously, did NOT happen before that generation to whom Jesus Christ was speaking, and many more other generations, passed away.
Fat. Fuentes wrote:
The generation referred to both the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as well as the future generation at the end of time. Many biblical events foreshadow future events.
Your very strained construction of Jesus Christ's alleged words "this generation" to mean whatever current or future generations fit the apocalyptic prophecies is a perfect example of what I was referring to above by "wildest circular logic, tautologies, and mental gymnastics that Christians will go through to defend their holy book."
You have engaged in what is often called circular reasoning, tautological argument, circular definition, moving the goalposts, begging the question, fallacy of definition, and probably several other logical fallacies. You know you did.
Fat. Fuentes wrote:
Here's a supreme example. Jesus was crucified, died and rose from the dead. He now lives in the lives of those in a state of grace in His Church. This BODY of CHRIST, the Church, will suffer, seemingly die and resurrect. We're experiencing that Passion now.
Whatever you believe the above is a "supreme example" of, it has nothing to do with anything I posted about Matthew 24:34, specifically "this generation" and "all these things have happened" and the factually supported opinion that the Jesus Christ described in the Gospel of Matthew was, rather ironically, a false prophet. His prophetic apocalyptic predictions in Matthew 24:34 simply did not come true even in the rather expansive period of "this generation."
A better way to spin it is, years ago something went terribly wrong. One thing no one can deny is the existence of sin in this world. God set about repairing this problem, and restoring this relationship with him, and in transforming the world into what it was meant to be. Part of this plan was Jesus dying for out sins, which justified us before God. The other part of this plan is in restoration of souls, which will not be complete in this world, but the next.
Despite this, some folks will reject this. The person who wallows in anger, and whose soul becomes more and more dark, is not headed for heaven. Perhaps he or she will get there, but not through his or efforts.
Who is saved and who is not can be a bit of a mystery, and I am glad that is something I don't have to judge, but salvation does come through the Son, however it may be.
What about the atheist with good intentions that had a horrible experience in Church? I just don't know. But I do believe that God's grace is greater than any of us can imagine. I don't think God is going to damn someone because they failed a quiz. That misses the whole point.
The early church, by the way, was split over complete of humanity.
You seem so open minded...I'm surprised this is difficult for you. This is why we need a Church founded by Jesus beginning with the Apostles to explain the meaning. The generation referred to both the destruction of the Temple in 70AD as well as the future generation at the end of time. Many biblical events foreshadow future events.
Here's a supreme example. Jesus was crucified, died and rose from the dead. He now lives in the lives of those in a state of grace in His Church. This BODY of CHRIST, the Church, will suffer, seemingly die and resurrect. We're experiencing that Passion now.
The Gospels were written well after Jesus had died with ample time to incorporate crucial events like the destruction of the Temple. It makes as much sense to believe that Jesus was resurrected because the Bible says so as it does to believe that Muhammed split the moon in two because the Quran says so.
Well based upon your prior comments I'm sure you'll jump all over this but, here goes...since we're really trying to explain belief, it is actually supernatural Faith that gives us our understanding. Faith is a gift from God available to all, but it requires our assent.
Even as a young child my initial reaction to that teaching was that it was a way to stop the debate. As I got older, read more, prayed more and strove to remain open to Grace, I came to understand and receive the gift.
The majority of earth's population is not Christian and is going to hell according to Christian logic.
Because the bible says so.
Hell, where people will be tortured by roasting in fire fore trillions and trillions and trillions of years is obscene, evil, abhorrent. That anyone can think this is remotely acceptable, shows the damage that is done by religion.
The majority of earth's population is not Christian and is going to hell according to Christian logic.
Well, evangelicals believe Jesus is my savior, and Trump is my king. If you don’t believe in Trump, you may become poor, and living a poor life is just like going to hell.
The majority of earth's population is not Christian and is going to hell according to Christian logic.
That’s correct and that’s why many on LRC are trying to preach the Gospel and trying to save the sinful lost souls on LRC. My main goal is to spread the message of salvation in Christ Jesus amen. I know there will be others trying to take me down and mock me but they will be mocked on judgement day. I pray for them. I speak only and nothing but la verdadero.
no religion has "logic", all based on fear, insecurity, and inability to reason
You'll be changing your tune if you or a loved one gets cancer.
Agree most people and atheists are but 1 loss away from turning and believing in Christ Jesus Amen! It only takes one to collapse the house, human beings are so vulnerable!
The majority of earth's population is not Christian and is going to hell according to Christian logic.
Based on a historical tendency to threaten death if people didn't convert?
They used to literally burn heretics at the stake, and even amongst Christians, if you were catholic or alternatively protestant at the wrong time or in the wrong place, you could end up being hung, drawn and quartered or other hellish fates
The real hell was in the way that Christians treated other human beings.
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