No one has to change the way they live their lives. Gender is a social construct. If someone changes their gender identity I don't have to do anything other than do my best to use the right pronouns.
They absolutely do have to change their lives!
Your examples not mine - Every other woman has to accept your penis in their restroom, whether they want to or not. Every woman in the WNBA has to compete against Lebron whether they want to or not. Every WNBA fan has to accept Lebron beating up on every woman in the WNBA whether they want to watch that or not.
Everyone involved in the Maine CC race had to accept a boy in the girls race whether they wanted to or not.
Everyone around the trans person has to change their lives to accommodate the trans person.
Do you really not see that?
No, I really don’t see that. What “change” are you going on and on about? Are you assuming that every woman has to accept “your penis” in their restroom? Like accept it inside of her body? Or is there some kind of formal acceptance ceremony to welcome every penis to the restroom? How do they have to “change their lives” as opposed to doing whatever they would do anyway?
Your examples not mine - Every other woman has to accept your penis in their restroom, whether they want to or not. Every woman in the WNBA has to compete against Lebron whether they want to or not. Every WNBA fan has to accept Lebron beating up on every woman in the WNBA whether they want to watch that or not.
Everyone involved in the Maine CC race had to accept a boy in the girls race whether they wanted to or not.
Everyone around the trans person has to change their lives to accommodate the trans person.
Do you really not see that?
No, I really don’t see that. What “change” are you going on and on about? Are you assuming that every woman has to accept “your penis” in their restroom? Like accept it inside of her body? Or is there some kind of formal acceptance ceremony to welcome every penis to the restroom? How do they have to “change their lives” as opposed to doing whatever they would do anyway?
Acceptance means they have to put up with your daily whims, wants, and whines. It means women have to lose privacy, lose competitive balance, and lose equal opportunity (in sport). The world doesn't have to adjust to you; you need to adjust to the world.
This entire debate comes down to extreme narcissism and egocentricity.
You continually ignore the very real evidence that medical transition doesn't even the playing field no matter how early it is started.
Really? How come trans runners are not clearing up global medals then? Not a single one. Zero.
What evidence makes you think the current rules are unfair to cis women as opposed to being unfair to transwomen? Is there some study showing that prepubertally transitioned transwomen with T < 2.5 for at least two years outperform cis women with similar training, diet, age, and other relevant control variables? Nobody even on this transphobic site thinks the current rules give trans- or even intersex women any shot at winning.
You don't even know what you're talking about. You're too invested to see the objective unfairness built into biological males competing against biological females. It's very clear that you've got a personal issue that you're trying to work through on a public forum.
It's not complicated. Biological males have a very large advantage over biological females when it comes to sports competition. That advantage is so large that medical intervention, hormone therapy, etc., regardless of age of onset, is not enough to eliminate that advantage.
I know you like to throw around labels. But, pointing out that advantage is not transphobic. It's reality.
No, I really don’t see that. What “change” are you going on and on about? Are you assuming that every woman has to accept “your penis” in their restroom? Like accept it inside of her body? Or is there some kind of formal acceptance ceremony to welcome every penis to the restroom? How do they have to “change their lives” as opposed to doing whatever they would do anyway?
Acceptance means they have to put up with your daily whims, wants, and whines. It means women have to lose privacy, lose competitive balance, and lose equal opportunity (in sport). The world doesn't have to adjust to you; you need to adjust to the world.
This entire debate comes down to extreme narcissism and egocentricity.
So you are saying there’s no change they need to do compared to the actions they would’ve done anyway. Is there a physical action they have to do with “acceptance”? Are there loud noises or bad smells or horrible sights they have to endure? Or is it all just in your white knight mind on behalf of women?
You made a flippant statement that you thought was clever, that unintentionally equated gender and sex. You told me I misread it. I asked you to explain to me how I misread it. And, you cant.
You made a flippant statement that you thought was clever, that unintentionally equated gender and sex. You told me I misread it. I asked you to explain to me how I misread it. And, you cant.
Nope, and this is getting pretty boring. I always stand by what I write. I already wrote it. You are the one who’s crying about it.
Your examples not mine - Every other woman has to accept your penis in their restroom, whether they want to or not. Every woman in the WNBA has to compete against Lebron whether they want to or not. Every WNBA fan has to accept Lebron beating up on every woman in the WNBA whether they want to watch that or not.
Everyone involved in the Maine CC race had to accept a boy in the girls race whether they wanted to or not.
Everyone around the trans person has to change their lives to accommodate the trans person.
Do you really not see that?
There was a time when people had to "change their lives!" to allow black children to go to school with white children. I don't feel sympathy for people's lives when they are upset over a positive change.
A girl ran a race and got 5th. You shouldn't be losing sleep over that.
It's a free country. You're allowed to be upset, angry, whatever. Just know that it makes you seem like a petty, hateful person. It's your choice. Own up to it. Don't act like a jackass and then blame the people who call you out on it.
Acceptance means they have to put up with your daily whims, wants, and whines. It means women have to lose privacy, lose competitive balance, and lose equal opportunity (in sport). The world doesn't have to adjust to you; you need to adjust to the world.
This entire debate comes down to extreme narcissism and egocentricity.
So you are saying there’s no change they need to do compared to the actions they would’ve done anyway. Is there a physical action they have to do with “acceptance”? Are there loud noises or bad smells or horrible sights they have to endure? Or is it all just in your white knight mind on behalf of women?
You truly have no idea what it means to be anyone other than yourself. Your response couldn't back up the point made about extreme narcissism and egocentricity, any better.
So you are saying there’s no change they need to do compared to the actions they would’ve done anyway. Is there a physical action they have to do with “acceptance”? Are there loud noises or bad smells or horrible sights they have to endure? Or is it all just in your white knight mind on behalf of women?
You truly have no idea what it means to be anyone other than yourself. Your response couldn't back up the point made about extreme narcissism and egocentricity, any better.
It's not even that, he's a troll. He uses a variety of similar names like "chickle," "truckle," "trickle," etc. He trolls all the trans threads in the usual way: pretending to be interested in debate but really just waiting for someone he can call names. If you see a name similar to the ones I listed, just ignore him.
Your examples not mine - Every other woman has to accept your penis in their restroom, whether they want to or not. Every woman in the WNBA has to compete against Lebron whether they want to or not. Every WNBA fan has to accept Lebron beating up on every woman in the WNBA whether they want to watch that or not.
Everyone involved in the Maine CC race had to accept a boy in the girls race whether they wanted to or not.
Everyone around the trans person has to change their lives to accommodate the trans person.
Do you really not see that?
There was a time when people had to "change their lives!" to allow black children to go to school with white children. I don't feel sympathy for people's lives when they are upset over a positive change.
A girl ran a race and got 5th. You shouldn't be losing sleep over that.
It's a free country. You're allowed to be upset, angry, whatever. Just know that it makes you seem like a petty, hateful person. It's your choice. Own up to it. Don't act like a jackass and then blame the people who call you out on it.
Nope - not the same by any stretch. Your response lack both thought and originality.
In order for it to be the same thing, black people would have had to have been asking to be recognized as white people, they weren't. Black people were asking for the same treatment. Trans people are asking for different treatment. Not the same at all.
So you are saying there’s no change they need to do compared to the actions they would’ve done anyway. Is there a physical action they have to do with “acceptance”? Are there loud noises or bad smells or horrible sights they have to endure? Or is it all just in your white knight mind on behalf of women?
You truly have no idea what it means to be anyone other than yourself. Your response couldn't back up the point made about extreme narcissism and egocentricity, any better.
Sounds like you have no disagreement with anything I actually said.
Nope - not the same by any stretch. Your response lack both thought and originality.
In order for it to be the same thing, black people would have had to have been asking to be recognized as white people, they weren't. Black people were asking for the same treatment. Trans people are asking for different treatment. Not the same at all.
A boy ran girls a race and got 5th.
Black people were asking for the same treatment as white people.
Transgirls are asking for the same treatment as cisgirls.
No perfect analogy for anything exists, but this one you have to admit is very very very similar.
Nope - not the same by any stretch. Your response lack both thought and originality.
In order for it to be the same thing, black people would have had to have been asking to be recognized as white people, they weren't. Black people were asking for the same treatment. Trans people are asking for different treatment. Not the same at all.
A boy ran girls a race and got 5th.
How so? This particular trans person or trans people in general?
This particular person didn't ask for any special treatment. She just followed the rules like everyone else. If you don't like the rules, then try to change them.
A paper published in The Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism last year gives plenty more examples.
The paper - "Transgender Girls Grow Tall: Adult Height Is Unaffected by GnRH Analogue and Estradiol Treatment" - is about a large group of males who each "started transitioning as a child" via early administration and continual use of GnRHa drugs aka "puberty blockers" along with hefty, continual use of estrogen.
Despite the fact that these medical interventions left these young males chemically castrated and permanently sterile, they all grew to adult heights normal for the adult male population and consistent with the predicted adult heights they as individuals would have reached if no medical attempts had been made to alter their development.
Going by the medical records and clinical measurements of 161 males in the Netherlands who "started medically transitioning" in childhood, the clinicians who wrote this paper came to the conclusion that
the treatment does not affect adult height
Overall, regular treatment seems to have little effect on adult height.
The finding that transgender girls, who have XY chromosomes and are treated with estradiol, reach an adult height close to the population mean for males suggests a minor role for sex hormones. This is in line with findings from studies in individuals with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome (CAIS) or XY complete gonadal dysgenesis in whom adult height was closer to male target height or average height in the male population (40, 41). This supports the idea that genetic factors, rather than sex hormones, are important in the regulation of growth (41, 42).
Since it turns out that the use of "puberty blockers" and Big Pharma estrogen doesn't stop male genetics, the "gender medicine" clinicians ghouls who wrote this paper say that surgical means to shorten the leg bones of male "early transitioners" are another possible medical intevention to try on these poor kids:
Some transgender girls wish to reduce their growth in order to reach an adult height within the normal female range. Surgical treatment, that is, an epiphysiodesis, can be used to limit growth (8, 9).
I don’t see why transwomen being taller on average matters when the intra-sex variation in height is already more than the inter-sex difference in the averages.
There’s little reason to think height matters in running, but if there’s a sport where it matters enough, it better be segregated by height categories like several strength sports are by weight categories, otherwise it’s unclear by what quantifiable metric it’s unfair. Is there any sport that considers Dutch participation as unfair?
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