Tesla has eliminated cobalt from over half its vehicles. And it is working hard to eliminate cobalt from even more of its fleet. The rest of the cobalt it uses does not come from child labor.
I would not buy a car from a company that uses cobalt sourced from child labor.
Do you realize what you've been doing is talking to yourself, a.k.a. monologue?
If you drive a Mach-e, you’ll wish you had one. I have two friends who have Teslas and once they rode in my Mach-e and got to drive it, they ordered one and will sell their Teslas when they come in.
You can tell that one is made by software guys and one is made by car guys. It’s a huge difference between the two. I was very surprised at how much better the Mach-e is.
Any particular reason you feel it's better?
The quality is night and day. Like I said the Mach-e feels like it is built by car people. Not so much with Teslas. In addition to the overall build, the Mach-e is much more comfortable in both ride and personal comfort. The Tesla rides like an old truck. Not sure why. Mach-e is very smooth. It’s quieter too (funny for an EV). Every Tesla I’ve been in has a low humming noise. It corners and handles much better. Tesla always seems to fight you on the corners. Back seat is infinitely more comfortable. I could go on.
The quality is night and day. Like I said the Mach-e feels like it is built by car people. Not so much with Teslas. In addition to the overall build, the Mach-e is much more comfortable in both ride and personal comfort. The Tesla rides like an old truck. Not sure why. Mach-e is very smooth. It’s quieter too (funny for an EV). Every Tesla I’ve been in has a low humming noise. It corners and handles much better. Tesla always seems to fight you on the corners. Back seat is infinitely more comfortable. I could go on.
Have you ever driven a Mach-e?
No. I've only seen reviews. I have a friend with a Mach-E on order that should have been here by now but it got held up because of the recall.
I very much like the software in the Tesla. Full self driving on the highway is really outstanding. And it's getting better and better on city streets.
I do a lot of road trips in my Model Y. Having long range, self driving, and access to the Supercharger network is a big plus. I hope it won't take too long to open up the Supercharges for you guys.
If the Mach-E drives better I'll have to just take your word for it for now.
Setting aside pesky issues like the destruction of the planet due to global warming and ground level ozone and toxic tailpipe emissions, the auto industry has been holding on to the internal combustion engine for a couple of decades longer than necessary because it is simply more profitable. The internal combustion engine starts breaking down after 100k miles and rarely will the cost of repairs justify keeping a vehicle past 200k mi. EV engines do not break down over time the way the internal combustion engine does. Teslas are hitting 300, 400 and 500k without any engine issues. The batteries do break down over time and have to be replaced. But Tesla batteries have been getting 300-500k miles before needing to be replaced. Even with battery replacement cost going way up ($6-7k to $12-15k), you are still saving tens of thousands over the life time of a EV versus the internal combustion engine taking into account maintenance, repairs and having to buy a new internal combustion engine vehicle much more frequently than an EV. So, to be blunt, the internal combustion engine is a rip off compared to EVs and possibly one of the greatest consumer scams in history. That alone is justification for the government forcing obsolescence.
So an ICE gas guzzler is kind of like the Covid vaccine? You need it all the time?
Are the quotes in the last two pages accurate - are we expecting the Tesla battery to go for 300K miles easily? That seems insane and great, but not very believable.
I read that too. Maybe. The word there is "could," not "will." It says ten minutes to charge to 90%. That's maybe twice the time it takes to fill a gas tank to 100%. And it says it will be something like five years for this to be ready. Yes, IF this actually happens it will make a big difference but between here and there is a lot of and.
You say that Tesla has no quality problems. Tesla is the second worst car manufacturer out of all car makers. The only car maker less reliable than Tesla was Buick. I would say Tesla has come quality problems.
These scores are out of a 100. A 100! The Tesla Model 3 EV scored the best of the brand, with 59 points, but the Model S, Y and X scored 20, 18 and 5, in that order. It retains its position on the list as the second-least reliable brand.
Tesla is number one in customer satisfaction according to both Consumer Reports and JD Power. If Tesla's quality is actually bad then owners wouldn't love them so much.
ALL cars? You gotta stop with the generalizations. Sheesh
Are the quotes in the last two pages accurate - are we expecting the Tesla battery to go for 300K miles easily? That seems insane and great, but not very believable.
150k seems pretty likely for almost everyone. 300k is doable with good weather and charging habits. And a lot will depend on what you mean by go. If a car drops from 300miles to 200mi range that is significant. But also still drivable.
Personally in the normal I drive 10-15k/year usage, I expect the rest of the car will struggle more than the battery.
Are the quotes in the last two pages accurate - are we expecting the Tesla battery to go for 300K miles easily? That seems insane and great, but not very believable.
Yes. 300K miles easily. I think a lot of people expect EV batteries to be like cell phone batteries, which are designed to make you replace the phone every three years.
Tesla is number one in customer satisfaction according to both Consumer Reports and JD Power. If Tesla's quality is actually bad then owners wouldn't love them so much.
ALL cars? You gotta stop with the generalizations. Sheesh
Yes. All cars will have problems eventually. But in a gas car there are a lot more moving parts that can go bad.
I read that too. Maybe. The word there is "could," not "will." It says ten minutes to charge to 90%. That's maybe twice the time it takes to fill a gas tank to 100%. And it says it will be something like five years for this to be ready. Yes, IF this actually happens it will make a big difference but between here and there is a lot of and.
Yea, always take battery breakthroughs with a grain of salt. Battery technology is advancing rapidly, but so many of the "breakthroughs" you hear about end up as something that's really hard to mass produce.
Please quit saying 90% of cars sold will have a plug by 2030. 1/3 of Americans live in apartments. There is no place for EV charging stations in existing apartments. NYC has like 6 million cars. There is no place for charging stations. Please quit with the ridiculous claim.
Yes, there will be chargers on the street. Lots of streets already have them.
You don't need a charger at every parking space. But any parking space can accommodate a charger. And they aren't very expensive to install.
There is money to be made in EV charging. The free market will make sure there are plenty of chargers for everyone.
By 2030, 90% of all new light duty vehicles in the US will have a plug.
The expensive will come from burying electric service line to each and every parking meter to be able to accommodate a charger.
Yes, there will be chargers on the street. Lots of streets already have them.
You don't need a charger at every parking space. But any parking space can accommodate a charger. And they aren't very expensive to install.
There is money to be made in EV charging. The free market will make sure there are plenty of chargers for everyone.
By 2030, 90% of all new light duty vehicles in the US will have a plug.
The expensive will come from burying electric service line to each and every parking meter to be able to accommodate a charger.
It's very inexpensive to install Level 2 chargers on city streets. In a lot of places, they just tap into the same line used for street lights. And the expense is paid for many times over from charging fees.
Are the quotes in the last two pages accurate - are we expecting the Tesla battery to go for 300K miles easily? That seems insane and great, but not very believable.
150k seems pretty likely for almost everyone. 300k is doable with good weather and charging habits. And a lot will depend on what you mean by go. If a car drops from 300miles to 200mi range that is significant. But also still drivable.
Personally in the normal I drive 10-15k/year usage, I expect the rest of the car will struggle more than the battery.
150k would be a good start. It doesn't help this thread much bc I am sure the Hybrid Toyota battery in the 2006 Prius I had was way different, but I didn't drive the Prius for a couple of weeks as it was getting close to 120-130k. I have always wondered if that is why it lost its battery. Interesting to see there is still some range of expected outcomes on the batteries.
The quality is night and day. Like I said the Mach-e feels like it is built by car people. Not so much with Teslas. In addition to the overall build, the Mach-e is much more comfortable in both ride and personal comfort. The Tesla rides like an old truck. Not sure why. Mach-e is very smooth. It’s quieter too (funny for an EV). Every Tesla I’ve been in has a low humming noise. It corners and handles much better. Tesla always seems to fight you on the corners. Back seat is infinitely more comfortable. I could go on.
Have you ever driven a Mach-e?
No. I've only seen reviews. I have a friend with a Mach-E on order that should have been here by now but it got held up because of the recall.
I very much like the software in the Tesla. Full self driving on the highway is really outstanding. And it's getting better and better on city streets.
I do a lot of road trips in my Model Y. Having long range, self driving, and access to the Supercharger network is a big plus. I hope it won't take too long to open up the Supercharges for you guys.
If the Mach-E drives better I'll have to just take your word for it for now.
FSD is a gimmick right now. You know that. Want a computer? Sure get a Tesla. Do you want a superior car? There are lots of options out there now. Mach-e is the best one I’ve found.
As for road trips, I still use my bmw. It’s still more convenient.
Go drive a Mach-e. You’ll never drive a Tesla again. It’s that much better. It makes a Tesla seem like a kit car.
Are the quotes in the last two pages accurate - are we expecting the Tesla battery to go for 300K miles easily? That seems insane and great, but not very believable.
I've seen numbers on the order of 10% range degradation per 100k miles, but it depends on multiple factors. In particular, low rate charging (e.g. home charger) is a lot easier on the batteries than is fast charging.
Certainly batteries can hard fail, but typically they just lose capacity over time.
The expensive will come from burying electric service line to each and every parking meter to be able to accommodate a charger.
It's very inexpensive to install Level 2 chargers on city streets. In a lot of places, they just tap into the same line used for street lights. And the expense is paid for many times over from charging fees.
In most cities all electric lines are buried so it will require digging up the sidewall for each parking meter to tap into underground service line. That is messy job, expensive and not quickly done. And a huge inconvenience to pedestrians and businesses. My opinion from working at electric utility (30+ years). It CAN be done, but why would you make every parking meter a smart parking meter. New parking areas going in is best place to begin with electrifying.
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