I think you should all post a sample week of how you think Seth should train for a half or full. It would be interesting.
OK, with five weeks to Rotterdam, he should just recover this week. Next week, do this:
Sunday: 16-20 miles @ ~6:15 pace; can start out slower for the first few, but not at 9:00 miles.
Monday: Single run, easy pace, 10 miles max
Tuesday: warmup; 2.5 miles @ 10 mile race pace (~4:55/mile), 5 min easy jog, 2 miles @ 10k pace (~4:45/mile); warmdown
Wednesday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max
Thursday: Double, easy pace, 15 miles max total for the day
Friday: Tempo. 2 mile warmup, 8 mile tempo w/ first two miles at 5:15 mile, next 4 miles at 5:00/mile , final two miles at MP, 2 mile warmdown
Saturday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max.
He can add easy morning runs on Tuesday and Friday if he wants, 5 miles max for each day. 90 miles/week should be absolutely plenty at this stage of his training.
If he had been doing 5k/10k pace stuff all along, I would probably speed up that Tuesday workout and shorten the distances to make it more of a real VO2 max effort. But I think this is better suited to where he is now.
The Tuesday workout should be broken down more IMO.
He'd probably be better off doing 8 x 1km at 3:05-3:00 (speeds used considering the altitude in Colorado) with a 1:30 rest. OR something like 5 x 1-mile at 4:55. Then a lot of 2 and 3-mile repeats (i.e 3 x 3-miles or 3 x 5km) at close to 5:10-5:05 pace with a 5-min rest between. Could be done during a 22-mile Long Run. I'm factoring altitude into these paces, although Seth's biggest strength is probably being used to high altitude so when he goes to sea level I'm not sure if he'll be able to run much faster coming down from only 5200'.
In 2015 I was trying to OTQ and coming off a 50-mile trail ultra win at The North Face San Francisco 50 (Dec. 2014). By January I was running 8x 1km on Marshall road in Boulder in dismal 3:05-3:08 times, but within a few weeks I ran US 12km National XC in Boulder at close to 5:00/mile pace. Then I smashed a 24-mile Long Run at the Boulder Res at 5:40 pace average (with a 8 x (3-min on/2-min jog) Fartlek in the second half. I was also doing some 2-mile Tempo Repeats (5:10 pace) and 400-600m (Faster than 5km PR pace) repeats for leg turnover once a week or so. Stuff like 4 x 2-mile and 10 x 600m etc.
In March I ran 2:20:02 on a Hot day at the LA Marathon for 12th overall. (8th in the USATF Champs and in the prize money) wearing shaved down RMAT foam Huakas from Hoka. In April I ran 2:19:12 on a windy day at Boston for 16th overall in Hoka Cliftons. Those were good races for me and I believe if the weather conditions had worked out I could've gotten my 3rd OTQ that season. I didn't though...so no excuses!
Now I missed my ultimate goal of an OTQ and a sub 2:19:00, but I do believe that kind of training (especially coming off MUT Running) is the stuff that Seth needs to do to OTQ. More talented and younger guys with a track focus on 10km-half marathon could do it on less, but Seth and I aren't the most talented types of guys.
He's got the benefit of carbon fiber shoes and super foams now and he's not coming off of ultra-marathon distance races like I was. It's easier to mix short (sub ultra) mountain running intensity and races with road marathons IMO...especially in the winter.
OK, with five weeks to Rotterdam, he should just recover this week. Next week, do this:
Sunday: 16-20 miles @ ~6:15 pace; can start out slower for the first few, but not at 9:00 miles.
Monday: Single run, easy pace, 10 miles max
Tuesday: warmup; 2.5 miles @ 10 mile race pace (~4:55/mile), 5 min easy jog, 2 miles @ 10k pace (~4:45/mile); warmdown
Wednesday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max
Thursday: Double, easy pace, 15 miles max total for the day
Friday: Tempo. 2 mile warmup, 8 mile tempo w/ first two miles at 5:15 mile, next 4 miles at 5:00/mile , final two miles at MP, 2 mile warmdown
Saturday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max.
He can add easy morning runs on Tuesday and Friday if he wants, 5 miles max for each day. 90 miles/week should be absolutely plenty at this stage of his training.
If he had been doing 5k/10k pace stuff all along, I would probably speed up that Tuesday workout and shorten the distances to make it more of a real VO2 max effort. But I think this is better suited to where he is now.
The Tuesday workout should be broken down more IMO.
He'd probably be better off doing 8 x 1km at 3:05-3:00 (speeds used considering the altitude in Colorado) with a 1:30 rest. OR something like 5 x 1-mile at 4:55. Then a lot of 2 and 3-mile repeats (i.e 3 x 3-miles or 3 x 5km) at close to 5:10-5:05 pace with a 5-min rest between. Could be done during a 22-mile Long Run. I'm factoring altitude into these paces, although Seth's biggest strength is probably being used to high altitude so when he goes to sea level I'm not sure if he'll be able to run much faster coming down from only 5200'.
In 2015 I was trying to OTQ and coming off a 50-mile trail ultra win at The North Face San Francisco 50 (Dec. 2014). By January I was running 8x 1km on Marshall road in Boulder in dismal 3:05-3:08 times, but within a few weeks I ran US 12km National XC in Boulder at close to 5:00/mile pace. Then I smashed a 24-mile Long Run at the Boulder Res at 5:40 pace average (with a 8 x (3-min on/2-min jog) Fartlek in the second half. I was also doing some 2-mile Tempo Repeats (5:10 pace) and 400-600m (Faster than 5km PR pace) repeats for leg turnover once a week or so. Stuff like 4 x 2-mile and 10 x 600m etc.
In March I ran 2:20:02 on a Hot day at the LA Marathon for 12th overall. (8th in the USATF Champs and in the prize money) wearing shaved down RMAT foam Huakas from Hoka. In April I ran 2:19:12 on a windy day at Boston for 16th overall in Hoka Cliftons. Those were good races for me and I believe if the weather conditions had worked out I could've gotten my 3rd OTQ that season. I didn't though...so no excuses!
Now I missed my ultimate goal of an OTQ and a sub 2:19:00, but I do believe that kind of training (especially coming off MUT Running) is the stuff that Seth needs to do to OTQ. More talented and younger guys with a track focus on 10km-half marathon could do it on less, but Seth and I aren't the most talented types of guys.
He's got the benefit of carbon fiber shoes and super foams now and he's not coming off of ultra-marathon distance races like I was. It's easier to mix short (sub ultra) mountain running intensity and races with road marathons IMO...especially in the winter.
Your OTQ series was really great, I think I watched the whole thing
Are you going to get back into the Golden Trail Sage? I think Seth there would be interesting. He’s done some math before to say he’s on par with Kilian at Pikes Peak but it would be interesting to watch him NOT on Pikes Peak against top competition.
I'm sitting in his live stream right now (because I can't watch the Tokyo Marathon and he's doing commentary), but I just have to say it. This man is not well educated. It's fine if you want to look up to him for being a decent runner, or for the neat drone footage he pulls together, or for making a happy little support group for runners, but holy smoke, please don't take any of his viewpoints on the world as anything more than the rambling's of an idiot.
OK, with five weeks to Rotterdam, he should just recover this week. Next week, do this:
Sunday: 16-20 miles @ ~6:15 pace; can start out slower for the first few, but not at 9:00 miles.
Monday: Single run, easy pace, 10 miles max
Tuesday: warmup; 2.5 miles @ 10 mile race pace (~4:55/mile), 5 min easy jog, 2 miles @ 10k pace (~4:45/mile); warmdown
Wednesday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max
Thursday: Double, easy pace, 15 miles max total for the day
Friday: Tempo. 2 mile warmup, 8 mile tempo w/ first two miles at 5:15 mile, next 4 miles at 5:00/mile , final two miles at MP, 2 mile warmdown
Saturday: Single run, easy pace, 8 miles max.
He can add easy morning runs on Tuesday and Friday if he wants, 5 miles max for each day. 90 miles/week should be absolutely plenty at this stage of his training.
If he had been doing 5k/10k pace stuff all along, I would probably speed up that Tuesday workout and shorten the distances to make it more of a real VO2 max effort. But I think this is better suited to where he is now.
The Tuesday workout should be broken down more IMO.
He'd probably be better off doing 8 x 1km at 3:05-3:00 (speeds used considering the altitude in Colorado) with a 1:30 rest. OR something like 5 x 1-mile at 4:55. Then a lot of 2 and 3-mile repeats (i.e 3 x 3-miles or 3 x 5km) at close to 5:10-5:05 pace with a 5-min rest between. Could be done during a 22-mile Long Run. I'm factoring altitude into these paces, although Seth's biggest strength is probably being used to high altitude so when he goes to sea level I'm not sure if he'll be able to run much faster coming down from only 5200'.
In 2015 I was trying to OTQ and coming off a 50-mile trail ultra win at The North Face San Francisco 50 (Dec. 2014). By January I was running 8x 1km on Marshall road in Boulder in dismal 3:05-3:08 times, but within a few weeks I ran US 12km National XC in Boulder at close to 5:00/mile pace. Then I smashed a 24-mile Long Run at the Boulder Res at 5:40 pace average (with a 8 x (3-min on/2-min jog) Fartlek in the second half. I was also doing some 2-mile Tempo Repeats (5:10 pace) and 400-600m (Faster than 5km PR pace) repeats for leg turnover once a week or so. Stuff like 4 x 2-mile and 10 x 600m etc.
In March I ran 2:20:02 on a Hot day at the LA Marathon for 12th overall. (8th in the USATF Champs and in the prize money) wearing shaved down RMAT foam Huakas from Hoka. In April I ran 2:19:12 on a windy day at Boston for 16th overall in Hoka Cliftons. Those were good races for me and I believe if the weather conditions had worked out I could've gotten my 3rd OTQ that season. I didn't though...so no excuses!
Now I missed my ultimate goal of an OTQ and a sub 2:19:00, but I do believe that kind of training (especially coming off MUT Running) is the stuff that Seth needs to do to OTQ. More talented and younger guys with a track focus on 10km-half marathon could do it on less, but Seth and I aren't the most talented types of guys.
He's got the benefit of carbon fiber shoes and super foams now and he's not coming off of ultra-marathon distance races like I was. It's easier to mix short (sub ultra) mountain running intensity and races with road marathons IMO...especially in the winter.
I'm enjoying this thread, especially the informed opinions about SJD's outlier theories on training and inexplicable (?) success as a social media influencer (maybe not so different from Gwen).
But Sage, some honest feedback for you here is: compare 113's post (or beersandmiles, or others) with yours, and what jumps out as the big difference? Yours is all about you. Maybe not a full-on humblebrag but pretty damn close. And more to the point, you were supposedly posting about SJD, but ended up posting about ME ME ME. If that was a calculated, intentional move on your part, to build your brand, then mission accomplished. But if it was inadvertent, than maybe you didn't even realize how it came off to a forum reader.
The Tuesday workout should be broken down more IMO.
He'd probably be better off doing 8 x 1km at 3:05-3:00 (speeds used considering the altitude in Colorado) with a 1:30 rest. OR something like 5 x 1-mile at 4:55. Then a lot of 2 and 3-mile repeats (i.e 3 x 3-miles or 3 x 5km) at close to 5:10-5:05 pace with a 5-min rest between. Could be done during a 22-mile Long Run. I'm factoring altitude into these paces, although Seth's biggest strength is probably being used to high altitude so when he goes to sea level I'm not sure if he'll be able to run much faster coming down from only 5200'.
In 2015 I was trying to OTQ and coming off a 50-mile trail ultra win at The North Face San Francisco 50 (Dec. 2014). By January I was running 8x 1km on Marshall road in Boulder in dismal 3:05-3:08 times, but within a few weeks I ran US 12km National XC in Boulder at close to 5:00/mile pace. Then I smashed a 24-mile Long Run at the Boulder Res at 5:40 pace average (with a 8 x (3-min on/2-min jog) Fartlek in the second half. I was also doing some 2-mile Tempo Repeats (5:10 pace) and 400-600m (Faster than 5km PR pace) repeats for leg turnover once a week or so. Stuff like 4 x 2-mile and 10 x 600m etc.
In March I ran 2:20:02 on a Hot day at the LA Marathon for 12th overall. (8th in the USATF Champs and in the prize money) wearing shaved down RMAT foam Huakas from Hoka. In April I ran 2:19:12 on a windy day at Boston for 16th overall in Hoka Cliftons. Those were good races for me and I believe if the weather conditions had worked out I could've gotten my 3rd OTQ that season. I didn't though...so no excuses!
Now I missed my ultimate goal of an OTQ and a sub 2:19:00, but I do believe that kind of training (especially coming off MUT Running) is the stuff that Seth needs to do to OTQ. More talented and younger guys with a track focus on 10km-half marathon could do it on less, but Seth and I aren't the most talented types of guys.
He's got the benefit of carbon fiber shoes and super foams now and he's not coming off of ultra-marathon distance races like I was. It's easier to mix short (sub ultra) mountain running intensity and races with road marathons IMO...especially in the winter.
I'm enjoying this thread, especially the informed opinions about SJD's outlier theories on training and inexplicable (?) success as a social media influencer (maybe not so different from Gwen).
But Sage, some honest feedback for you here is: compare 113's post (or beersandmiles, or others) with yours, and what jumps out as the big difference? Yours is all about you. Maybe not a full-on humblebrag but pretty damn close. And more to the point, you were supposedly posting about SJD, but ended up posting about ME ME ME. If that was a calculated, intentional move on your part, to build your brand, then mission accomplished. But if it was inadvertent, than maybe you didn't even realize how it came off to a forum reader.
Are you new here? Sage has some good stuff to share, but holy beefsteaks can the man ramble on about himself. This isn't anything new.
I'm enjoying this thread, especially the informed opinions about SJD's outlier theories on training and inexplicable (?) success as a social media influencer (maybe not so different from Gwen).
But Sage, some honest feedback for you here is: compare 113's post (or beersandmiles, or others) with yours, and what jumps out as the big difference? Yours is all about you. Maybe not a full-on humblebrag but pretty damn close. And more to the point, you were supposedly posting about SJD, but ended up posting about ME ME ME. If that was a calculated, intentional move on your part, to build your brand, then mission accomplished. But if it was inadvertent, than maybe you didn't even realize how it came off to a forum reader.
Are you new here? Sage has some good stuff to share, but holy beefsteaks can the man ramble on about himself. This isn't anything new.
Not new here, but maybe not frequently following a thread closely where Sage jumps in. (exceptions for jaguar1 stuff) Sage seems like a good guy, and usually answers honestly when he gets ragged on for his giant carbon footprint from all the leisure air travel. But this post here was absurdly self-serving. If unintentional, then a polite call-out is warranted.
The Tuesday workout should be broken down more IMO.
He'd probably be better off doing 8 x 1km at 3:05-3:00 (speeds used considering the altitude in Colorado) with a 1:30 rest. OR something like 5 x 1-mile at 4:55. Then a lot of 2 and 3-mile repeats (i.e 3 x 3-miles or 3 x 5km) at close to 5:10-5:05 pace with a 5-min rest between. Could be done during a 22-mile Long Run. I'm factoring altitude into these paces, although Seth's biggest strength is probably being used to high altitude so when he goes to sea level I'm not sure if he'll be able to run much faster coming down from only 5200'.
In 2015 I was trying to OTQ and coming off a 50-mile trail ultra win at The North Face San Francisco 50 (Dec. 2014). By January I was running 8x 1km on Marshall road in Boulder in dismal 3:05-3:08 times, but within a few weeks I ran US 12km National XC in Boulder at close to 5:00/mile pace. Then I smashed a 24-mile Long Run at the Boulder Res at 5:40 pace average (with a 8 x (3-min on/2-min jog) Fartlek in the second half. I was also doing some 2-mile Tempo Repeats (5:10 pace) and 400-600m (Faster than 5km PR pace) repeats for leg turnover once a week or so. Stuff like 4 x 2-mile and 10 x 600m etc.
In March I ran 2:20:02 on a Hot day at the LA Marathon for 12th overall. (8th in the USATF Champs and in the prize money) wearing shaved down RMAT foam Huakas from Hoka. In April I ran 2:19:12 on a windy day at Boston for 16th overall in Hoka Cliftons. Those were good races for me and I believe if the weather conditions had worked out I could've gotten my 3rd OTQ that season. I didn't though...so no excuses!
Now I missed my ultimate goal of an OTQ and a sub 2:19:00, but I do believe that kind of training (especially coming off MUT Running) is the stuff that Seth needs to do to OTQ. More talented and younger guys with a track focus on 10km-half marathon could do it on less, but Seth and I aren't the most talented types of guys.
He's got the benefit of carbon fiber shoes and super foams now and he's not coming off of ultra-marathon distance races like I was. It's easier to mix short (sub ultra) mountain running intensity and races with road marathons IMO...especially in the winter.
I'm enjoying this thread, especially the informed opinions about SJD's outlier theories on training and inexplicable (?) success as a social media influencer (maybe not so different from Gwen).
But Sage, some honest feedback for you here is: compare 113's post (or beersandmiles, or others) with yours, and what jumps out as the big difference? Yours is all about you. Maybe not a full-on humblebrag but pretty damn close. And more to the point, you were supposedly posting about SJD, but ended up posting about ME ME ME. If that was a calculated, intentional move on your part, to build your brand, then mission accomplished. But if it was inadvertent, than maybe you didn't even realize how it came off to a forum reader.
this is stupid.
Everyone's been talking about how SJD could benefit from proper structured workouts, so Sage explained how he did it. It's not a humblebrag, it's explaining his own experience.
..meanwhile Seth runs back2back 25k easy runs at 5.35 / km pace. I wonder what benefit he will get from those running 2.30 slower then his goal pace. A recovery run, sure but then why the hell run 2h 16min every freakin day....
We might have to start a rotterdam thread soon. Going to be very interesting... I just don't see him going faster than 2:25..he refuses to do ANY speed work...
5.35 for him is not hard. Thats too easy. But way too long for such easy 🤷♂️
He ran a longrun @ 3.57 and everybody on Strava like bohh crazy wow super duper fast. Ehm sorry thats 50sec slower then his goal marathon pace. Thats what I'd run my longrun too?
5.35 for him is not hard. Thats too easy. But way too long for such easy 🤷♂️
He ran a longrun @ 3.57 and everybody on Strava like bohh crazy wow super duper fast. Ehm sorry thats 50sec slower then his goal marathon pace. Thats what I'd run my longrun too?
This is the hardest Seth runs, though. He never runs harder, but runs this "hard" all the time.
Then can't run as fast as he expects to when he races.
20k @ 3.20 per km - Yes there is altitude in the mix but that's quite slower then his goal MP? And the HM he ran 3.14 @ sea level so uhm. Yes humidity....
