Not taking anything away from these guys but Ritz 14:10 solo 21 years ago no super shoes is more impressive
Not taking anything away from these guys but Ritz 14:10 solo 21 years ago no super shoes is more impressive
chips ahoy timing company wrote:
Anyone who claims the course is short needs to look at the other major championships GPS data. All of them are short including d1 and virtually all of them are short by the same percentages. So claiming the fast times result from the course measurements is foolish.
It’s a fast course with really fast runners.
Howdy there 'bama tabacca. Us here in the north dont measure courses with GPS because them there commercial devices have large margins of error. Maybe if you went to college and had more than six teeth youd know better.
SurveyRunnerBoi wrote:
When 4:30 milers run low 15 you know the course is short lol
Exactly. There’s going to be a ton of gigantic RL performance improvements like that. The “last mile” splits are going to be hilarious to review.
Takes nothing away from how good NP is as a team; by far the best ever. Not even close.
But no, they didn’t take off :20 off their previous best (from a fast course with a ton of hard-packed dirt and/or CEMENT).
For all of you griping about the length of the course or that nobody can measure up to Ritz just STFU. Really, STFU. The runners today were concerned only about beating the other competitors. And the teams wanted to beat other teams. That's it. Everyone knows that only track times can be compared to other performances. And even in track there's variability with the speed of the track's surface, weather conditions, etc. First and foremost runners compete against each other, and only secondarily against the clock.
As for NP, they've accomplished whatever has been asked of them. This is the greatest boys' high school cross country team.
The 2nd split is at 2.1 miles
Imimpresssed wrote:
7empest wrote:
This course is a total joke!!!!! Not one of these girls will even break 17:00 at Balboa Park in San Diego next week! The course is a National race disgrace to the sport, and puts these girls in the record books above girls who actually ran real cross country courses. Just like Jenna Hutchins record is a joke. Tuohy is the real record holder! Hutchins would not have even broken 16:30 on the course Tuohy ran. Perez will win next week in San Diego, and is the only one who has a shot at sub 17:00. She ran a real course last week in NY and can handle the hills at Balboa!
Good news for you- there is no “record” for cross country. Your favorite runner is still great. There are track records but not XC records across courses. If some people think otherwise, that’s their problem, and you can’t control it. Just be satisfied knowing that your favorite is still great.
The bad news for him is that Hutchins ran 15:34 on the track three weeks after her 15:58. Tuohy has not beat that 15:34 in high school OR college. So claiming Hutchins would have finished way behind her is psychotic.
ragingclue wrote:
They will be better next year. Their 6 and 7 guys broke 15 making their 1-7 spread "only" 56 seconds. The 14:10 record is a benchmark but kind of irrelevant at this point. This is unquestionably the greatest high school xc race ever.
Also can anyone verify the 2 mile split? I heard one of the announcers say 9:41 but that seems 'slow' given they rolled through the mile in 4:30, so I was expecting 9:10-9:20 for the 2mile split. especially since Sahlman ran 14:03, I highly doubt that 2mile split was correct.
It was a 2.1 mile split, not a 2.0 split
Young twins have a legit shot of breaking all the relevant records. I expect both to best German’s record next year, maybe even mid season at Clovis. Let’s see how it goes. Looking forward to seeing one or more of them run low 8:30s at Arcadia. Is sub 8:30 possible? I think so.
7empest wrote:
astro wrote:
God I love being right. Victory lap time. I knew a superfast course when I saw it, and the details the course designer provided last year clinched it. I think Angelina Perez, who was the top rated girl this year would have had a great shot at sub 16. Perez top speed rating was 163 and she ran Holmdel twice, getting in the low 17s. It would have been a good data point in comparing the times on this course.
This course is a total joke!!!!! Not one of these girls will even break 17:00 at Balboa Park in San Diego next week! The course is a National race disgrace to the sport, and puts these girls in the record books above girls who actually ran real cross country courses. Just like Jenna Hutchins record is a joke. Tuohy is the real record holder! Hutchins would not have even broken 16:30 on the course Tuohy ran. Perez will win next week in San Diego, and is the only one who has a shot at sub 17:00. She ran a real course last week in NY and can handle the hills at Balboa!
You seem to have a lot of anger. Maybe you should speak to a therapist.
Peach Pit wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Regardless of how fast the course is, Ritz's CR is a legitimate benchmark for comparing performances.
One thing I'm glad about is that now there's a national race where people can compare times to against the best of the best. The Michigan CR is incredibly tough, but it's not like the NP park kids are ever going to get a shot at it. Ritz's FL CR is also incredibly tough, but no one can compete against it either.
With the NP kids doing RunningLane and giving it their all, we now have a national meet where we can compare performances in the future. If someone wants to show they're the best ever, there's a good chance they'll try to take the RL CR. No one can take Ritz's FL CR from him, nor can they compare their races to it because it's an XC course. Now, we have the greatest team ever to compare future teams/individuals to. Hopefully, RL keeps this going, and hopefully, top teams go to it.
Talent in the 2-mile and XC are the same thing and what the NP kids accomplish next spring will provide all the information we need to compare them to the GOATS.
Wise Old Man wrote:
Colin will be impossible to fully replace, but I expect Doshi and Martinez to be faster than Appleford, and maybe one of them will be running close to 14:45 at Woodward, similar to Aaron this year. Youngs should be faster next year faster than Colin this year. Their team time 1-5 won’t fall off my much.
Yeah, I guess you're right about that. I expect the twins to be faster than Colin next year just because they're at his level now, and if Doshi and Martinez can progress, they could get down below 14:45ish. They're already below 15, so it's not a huge jump. That said, Aaron's level is 14:14 right now, and I don't know how realistic it is for one of them to make that big of a jump, but it's not impossible.
Peach Pit wrote:
[quote]SDSU Aztec wrote:
... we now have a national meet where we can compare performances in the future.
I seem to be in the minority, but fast XC times should not be the focus of a national championship race. I'd prefer a strength course determine the national champion. Times should be irrelevant. Does anyone at the NCAA or World level obsess about XC times? Why is that the trend of HS XC?
I challenge every single Newbury Park runner gloating over their finishing times to step foot on the speedway and try to replicate what Ritz did. I will get on the phone with Superior Timing right now and foot the bill for the setup. I also call on Hansons-Brooks to get the athletes travel fares and lodging.
blue 7 wrote:
For all of you griping about the length of the course or that nobody can measure up to Ritz just STFU. Really, STFU. The runners today were concerned only about beating the other competitors. And the teams wanted to beat other teams. That's it. Everyone knows that only track times can be compared to other performances. And even in track there's variability with the speed of the track's surface, weather conditions, etc. First and foremost runners compete against each other, and only secondarily against the clock.
As for NP, they've accomplished whatever has been asked of them. This is the greatest boys' high school cross country team.
Heartless wrote:
SurveyRunnerBoi wrote:
When 4:30 milers run low 15 you know the course is short lol
Exactly. There’s going to be a ton of gigantic RL performance improvements like that. The “last mile” splits are going to be hilarious to review.
Takes nothing away from how good NP is as a team; by far the best ever. Not even close.
But no, they didn’t take off :20 off their previous best (from a fast course with a ton of hard-packed dirt and/or CEMENT).
The times the top 4 ran at Woodbridge compare to todays times. Colin had a bad day at Woodbridge and still ran 13:48. Their 5-7 really improved. Their coach stated back then he would get them closer to the front four and he did.
Also Cantù ran 15:29 in the silver race. He’ll be back next year,
fatboy slim wrote:
Heartless wrote:
For some perspective, the 2nd best time on the MHSAA course behind Ritz’s 14:10 (held there since 1996), is 14:49 by Hough in 2020. This includes a couple national champions as well- Grant Fisher (14:52 at MHSAA) and Tim Moore (15:06). Hobbs ran low-14:50s as well.
Isn’t the Cali state meet course considered a bit faster than MHSAA MIS course?
Lol no. Michigan has the fastest course ever
Mis isn't the fastest course in Michigan that would be Bennie. NP wouldn't break 14:30 at mis. Just look at how fast hough ran here compared to at mis
Benzie*
Imimpresssed wrote:
7empest wrote:
This course is a total joke!!!!! Not one of these girls will even break 17:00 at Balboa Park in San Diego next week! The course is a National race disgrace to the sport, and puts these girls in the record books above girls who actually ran real cross country courses. Just like Jenna Hutchins record is a joke. Tuohy is the real record holder! Hutchins would not have even broken 16:30 on the course Tuohy ran. Perez will win next week in San Diego, and is the only one who has a shot at sub 17:00. She ran a real course last week in NY and can handle the hills at Balboa!
Good news for you- there is no “record” for cross country. Your favorite runner is still great. There are track records but not XC records across courses. If some people think otherwise, that’s their problem, and you can’t control it. Just be satisfied knowing that your favorite is still great.
Marathons are run on different courses but we hand out records for those.
Peach Pit wrote:
Wise Old Man wrote:
Colin will be impossible to fully replace, but I expect Doshi and Martinez to be faster than Appleford, and maybe one of them will be running close to 14:45 at Woodward, similar to Aaron this year. Youngs should be faster next year faster than Colin this year. Their team time 1-5 won’t fall off my much.
Yeah, I guess you're right about that. I expect the twins to be faster than Colin next year just because they're at his level now, and if Doshi and Martinez can progress, they could get down below 14:45ish. They're already below 15, so it's not a huge jump. That said, Aaron's level is 14:14 right now, and I don't know how realistic it is for one of them to make that big of a jump, but it's not impossible.
I was referring more to the Woodward times. Aaron was 14:46. It would be a 30 sec improvement for Martinez, but I think he can do it in that system and with those teammates. Youngs are going sub 14:20 at Woodward next year. Their strength is unreal.
Here we see some REALLY pathetic posts from $0.02
Look away it’s bit too cringe to bear
hope this puts to rest the argument that Brosnan is not a great coach. Many seem to claim he got lucky with the brothers, but today he proved that he can develop his other athletes into great runners. 6 and 7 runners for NP broke 15 and are coming back next year.