Tom “Tinman” Schwartz and Drew Hunter/Tinman Elite have parted ways

I think you are wildly misinterpreting the situation. I think Tinman got a raw deal in all of this and seems like a legit coach. Didn’t deserve it all. I suspect that some small modicum of social media recognition got to the groups head when the reality is that their performances didn’t really back up the attention. Moreover many of them seemed to actually be improving. I’m simply a fan of the sport... no need for the ad hominem attack. I might have had some interest in following some 13:17 runner that seemed like a good dude, hard worker, drama free. That seems to have been tossed out the window based on what I’m reading here.

To your other points:

1. Do all my running alone no running group

2. Yes have a pair of VFs

3. Don’t run in Hokas

4. Have field event performances in my youth that were superior (based on iaaf scoring) to some of the TME.

5. Am not a particularly fast distance runner (15:45 5k at the moment after 2 years of running) but am reasonably proud of what I have been able to accomplish given my age, other responsibilities and natural genetic makeup.

Rojo Bot wrote:

But you just said that guys who are 25 shouldn’t quit their job in finance to pursue their dream?

So which one is it?

The guy who called me barely even ran D1. Maybe he was on the team for 2 years. He just wanted to move there and film them and stuff. He thought their lifestyle was fun based on the videos.

Drew's not a kid. He's 23 turning 24 this year. Nowhere near a kid by any stretch of the imagination.

Heartless wrote:

Adidas is almost halfway through their 10 year investment with nothing to show for it. You better believe they’re involved in this.

As I said on another thread, Tinman is great at somehow finding 12 year olds that are super into endurance training, lunatic parents who think private coaching at that age is appropriate, and getting them to be incredible 15 year olds (by focusing on much higher percentage of regular threshold work than your typical early teen). That’s his true business model. But it typically stops right there. Numerous examples over the last several years of the Tinman teenage plateau. People need to stop acting like they don’t see it.

What's wrong with that. The threshold training is what htey need to do. It's MUCH better htan hard intervals.

Who has more room for improvement?

Option 1)A HS who does 60 mpw with lots of threshold but rarely goes to the well or

Option 2) One who runs 40 mpw but does a ton of races and a ton of hard workouts.

The answer is #1.

oh no no no wrote:

shea it aint so wrote:

Nobody has mentioned the possibility of Adidas stepping in and forcing the change. Perhaps they felt the need to protect their investment?

I'm slightly disturbed to say that I think they might be coaching themselves at this point. At the very least, their new coach does not actually meet with them in person and hasn't changed the workouts.

1. A vid shows Hunter explaining a workout

2. Hammer and Axe: they think they know how to coach

3. Frat house vibes have increased.

Truly inmates running the asylum.

Serious question as i have only ever watched one of these videos and it was them cooking dinner. What videos should i watch? Is there a tinman youtube channel or do they each have their own channel?

High Fidelity wrote:

At some point all of these “layered” workouts are too cute by half.

So a Tinman workout is like some 600s, some 200s, then two miles at tempo

Meanwhile Ben True is doing 12 x 600 at 1:33 -1:30

Guess who’s going to win in a race

Yes. When a 13:03 guy races as a bunch of 13:15-13:35 guys, normally the 13:03 guy wins. It's kind of like a 9:00 guy racing a 9:20 guy. It's not going to matter what workouts they are doing.

Yeah, Mrs Tinman, like we're supposed to believe everything you say? You're the BIASED WIFE OF THE GUY IN THE SPOTLIGHT, and your opinion doesn't hold water!!

Guess what? Watch the wife of a man on trial for murder say how her husband didn't do it. It's commonplace. It's called BIAS, and while you, no doubt are hurt, I can guarantee, without knowing, that your husband did some things that he sure as hell won't repeat in the future. THE FAULT LIES WITH BOTH SIDES.

you seriously could have typed "youtube.com -> tinman" in your browser in a fraction of the time it took you to make this post.

dafuqutalkinbout wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but you're thinking 17s improvement (2.1%) is possible in 6 months simply by Drew changing his shoes.

But Sam Parsons improving 30s (3.6%) over 4 years out of college is "improving a lot"?

God people are stupid. Drew ran 13:17 in december. I figured based on that he could run 10 seconds faster so like 13:07-10 in the summer. Then give him another 7-10 seconds for the shoes.

And YES, I think a pro improving his 5k time 30 seconds is MASSIVE improvement. Imagine if Lawi Lalang or King Ches improved 30 seconds after college. King Ches is the perfect example here. Why aren't their pages and pages of people bashing his coach? That's a serious question.

I think it's because he isn't on youtube. I don't get why Tinman gets all the hate.

People don’t bash Andy Powell because he’s an extremely successful coach and lays low.

Look. Basically you have two parties (TME and Mr. Schwartz) that completely effed themselves over.

Schwartz credibility goes down a ditch because he basically got dumped by a bunch of also rans.

TME whole schtick is a complete facade and the group might disband in a couple years.

The most ironic thing about this to me is that Cory Leslie and Mrs. Hunter both follow the tinman philosophy. That means that either TME did not think it through firing Schwartz, or it was Schwartz personality rather than the training that they had an issue with. Or a combination of the two.

Either way, TME really messed up but it’s hard to say it isn’t warranted. Didn’t seem like they were doing all that well with Schwartz as coach.

rojo wrote:

I think it's because he isn't on youtube.

i would say this is definitely one of the reasons. their influence over teenage kids has inflated their egos and results have suffered. they literally tried to sell a bowl for like 300 dollars in one of their drops.

rojo wrote:

dafuqutalkinbout wrote:

I haven't read this whole thread yet, but you're thinking 17s improvement (2.1%) is possible in 6 months simply by Drew changing his shoes.

But Sam Parsons improving 30s (3.6%) over 4 years out of college is "improving a lot"?

God people are stupid. Drew ran 13:17 in december. I figured based on that he could run 10 seconds faster so like 13:07-10 in the summer. Then give him another 7-10 seconds for the shoes.

And YES, I think a pro improving his 5k time 30 seconds is MASSIVE improvement. Imagine if Lawi Lalang or King Ches improved 30 seconds after college. King Ches is the perfect example here. Why aren't their pages and pages of people bashing his coach? That's a serious question.

I think it's because he isn't on youtube. I don't get why Tinman gets all the hate.

Lmao you think Drew could run sub 13 just by changing his shoes? You have a weird fetish for these shoes my friend.

RunnerConnection wrote:

Wow, there are a lot of folks on here speculating this or that about this entire situation with Coach Tinman, Tinman Elite and Drew. Here are the facts because I feel this needs to be shared to stop all the BS comments on this thread. Time to rock-n-roll!

"Time to rock-n-roll" should be the QOTD tomorrow

You are obviously a fan of Tinman Elite or perhaps one of them. By the way my post isn't an opinion, it is what really did happen. Why would I take the time to write and share this information? To end all the speculations and assumptions that people out there think or say are happening. Sometimes the truth hurts, but I'm not going to post information that is not true.

There definitely be another side to the story--whether they chose to air it out on this site, well they'd be wise to keep their heads down and focus on the competition season.

adidas is a German company. This is their culture, cut-throat.

Would never happen at NIKE.

Go USA!

It sounds like Tinman wasn't happy with the coaching arrangement he had with them anyway. I bet Tinman would agree that the coach-athlete relationship wasn't great. It sounds like they never respected him.

In that situation, the guys were RIGHT to fire Tinman. If you don't trust your coach, you won't run fast. It sucks for Tinman but he should have ditched them years ago if he didn't like how they were acting.

The best coaches won't lower their standards just to please a top athlete.

No shiit. But you’re completely missing the point.

First, I wasn’t comparing training methods; I’m very much pro-threshold (i.e. Marius Bakken ~2001). HOW Tinman gets young kids to run so much faster than others at the early ages is simply a function of having talented, well-trained early-teens vs early-teens that are still trying to figure out if they even like running. It’s nothing more than that.

The second part is that his athletes almost always plateau and/or fade away much earlier than ‘our’ expectations. And those talented early-teens that were trying to figure out if running was going to be their main focus... once the do decide... seem to be able to bridge the head start that Tinman’s BUSINESS MODEL provides. Think about it.

God of Wine wrote:

adidas is a German company. This is their culture, cut-throat.

Would never happen at NIKE.

Go USA!

Almost fell for it.

Love me some satire!