Jakob and Filip to run 800m on tuesday june 30th

Meyex wrote:

Jombaz wrote:

I'm not the biggest fan of Jakob, but to be fair he had the 5k races in the legs in the 1500m final. If he just went for the 1500 it's likely he medals.

This argument is often made.

Jakob had SIX days between the 5,000m final and the 1,500m. One was on Day 4, one on Day 10. Elite athletes recover extremely fast, and it was more than enough time to race the 1,500m at his full potential.

Sifan Hassan won double-gold. Don't use the 6 day differential between 5,000m and 1,500m as excuse, he simply had no valid strategy to beat his competitors with superior speed (1:42/1:43 guys) in the 1,500m final. Could he beat Lewandowski and Makloufhi in a 5k? Easily. Even in a 3k. But in a 1,500m, it's a different story.

Long ago on this forum I posted that Filip had the best chances of a world championship medal over any of the brothers because he can finish fast in a tactical race. He is the only Ingebrigtsten to have won a world or olympic medal so far.

I don't think finishing fast in a 1500 is truly to do with your 800m speed, it is a loose indicator sure, but it is your ability to kick really hard and reach maximum velocity over a 30-50m distance. A good 800m can be run from endurance. That raw speed is more relevant in a 200m.

It does not appear to me that the Ingebrigtens do this in their training. It simply takes practice.

I hope Gjert spends time to develop this raw, sprint-for-your-life weapon that is needed to win medals.

Salvatore Stitchmo wrote:

Let's stop the f%$king around.

1.46.37 for Jakob

prediction locked in

Because when you know what you are talking about, you know what you are talking about.

With a normal season and races regularly until today, both Filip and Jakob would run 1:45 today, no doubt about it. They are definitely not fast twitched, but they are still fast enough to run 1:45 with their endurance. Exciting to see their progress, still under the circumstances

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Exactly as I predicted it, not surprised he couldn't run sub 1:46 despite his massive endurance and aerobic strength.

Coevett was way off with his 1:43/1:44. Just accept the fact that he is primarily slow-twitch, and will always be. 1:46 is still a fantastic time for a long-distance specialist. He even gained weight/power for this race, but he can't change his muscle fiber physiology in his legs. Very good race, he should be happy with it as 1500/5k/10k runner.

Not sure what you're gloating about as virtually everyone not named Coevett predicted 1:45 - 1:46.

I'm curious why you think a one-off race like this is evidence that either/both of the brothers are incapable of breaking 1:46. Do you expect them to run to their limits in a single attempt, especially over a distance they rarely contest?

Meyex wrote:

Jombaz wrote:

I'm not the biggest fan of Jakob, but to be fair he had the 5k races in the legs in the 1500m final. If he just went for the 1500 it's likely he medals.

This argument is often made.

Jakob had SIX days between the 5,000m final and the 1,500m. One was on Day 4, one on Day 10. Elite athletes recover extremely fast, and it was more than enough time to race the 1,500m at his full potential.

Sifan Hassan won double-gold. Don't use the 6 day differential between 5,000m and 1,500m as excuse, he simply had no valid strategy to beat his competitors with superior speed (1:42/1:43 guys) in the 1,500m final. Could he beat Lewandowski and Makloufhi in a 5k? Easily. Even in a 3k. But in a 1,500m, it's a different story.

That’s not really fair, between the 5k final (day 4) and 1500 heats (day 7) about 72 hours passed. Doing a fast 5k followed by an all out lactic bath 5k isn’t really what you want to do 3 days before the heats of worlds. It should surely have affected him. And your comparision to Hassan is wierd, the fields and competetiveness could be different between the genders. Not to mention she’s blantantly doped (something all elite runners should be suspected of being, but shes over the top).

With no specific 800m training Jakob will be capable of 1.45.4-5 within the next 2 seasons. I say that because with a focus on 1500m/5000m it's doubtful if they ever bother to do the sessions that would lead him to something in 1.44.7-8 range (his absolute top potential over 800m with workouts like 6x300m in 37 with 90 seconds rest etc).

they aren't slow wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Exactly as I predicted it, not surprised he couldn't run sub 1:46 despite his massive endurance and aerobic strength.

Coevett was way off with his 1:43/1:44. Just accept the fact that he is primarily slow-twitch, and will always be. 1:46 is still a fantastic time for a long-distance specialist. He even gained weight/power for this race, but he can't change his muscle fiber physiology in his legs. Very good race, he should be happy with it as 1500/5k/10k runner.

Not sure what you're gloating about as virtually everyone not named Coevett predicted 1:45 - 1:46.

I'm curious why you think a one-off race like this is evidence that either/both of the brothers are incapable of breaking 1:46. Do you expect them to run to their limits in a single attempt, especially over a distance they rarely contest?

Excuse me, but when ex-runner says - ' Coevett expects 1:42' it doesn't mean that I expected 1:42.

But when I say - 'I expect 1:44.5 - 1:45.5' it does means that I expect 1:44.5 - 1:45.5'

I wasn't way out with my prediction. I was a bit optimistic I guess. What I really meant was that Jakob was capable of 1:44.5 to 1:45.5 which he likely would be in a proper race in a normal season.

As for ex-doper who lied about ever breaking 2 minutes and hasn't got the b a ll s to face me in a Parkrun next year, what you're saying is that Jakob is now around 4 seconds faster than Aouita was a age 22, when Aouita had been an 800m runner for years.

This was 1 race. I looked at the NCAA last year to find a 1:46 guy about Jakob's age. Michael Rhoads ran 1:46. He ran the 800 a total of 14 times and ran as slow as 1:51.98. He was over 1:50 a total of 4 times during that season. So he varied about 5 seconds during those 14 races to get 1 at the time that Jakob ran his first time out. I think it is safe to assume that this was an sverage race for Jakob which means he could go 2.5 seconds faster on a good day and 2.5 seconds slower on a bad day. I would give him 1:43.9 as a possibility.

This is the senior competition, nobody is giving Jakob special access to medals because he is 19. Three British u20s ran under 1:47 in 2019.

Aouita ran 1:43 and won an Olympic medal int he event. Different league. Drop it. You are making yourself look like an idiot by continuing the comparison.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

the beagle wrote:

Going through the 400m one second faster would somehow result in him also running the second lap faster (which is what would be necessary for 1:44 high)?

Of course not. As I said - on the right day in the future. He's very young and racing in a low-key meet during the Pandemic against his brother in the midst of COVID-19. I do not think this is the best time for his lifetime 800 PB.

I didn't see you mention the future specifically, but fair enough, now I understand what you were getting at.

off and defense wrote:

This was 1 race. I looked at the NCAA last year to find a 1:46 guy about Jakob's age. Michael Rhoads ran 1:46. He ran the 800 a total of 14 times and ran as slow as 1:51.98. He was over 1:50 a total of 4 times during that season. So he varied about 5 seconds during those 14 races to get 1 at the time that Jakob ran his first time out. I think it is safe to assume that this was an sverage race for Jakob which means he could go 2.5 seconds faster on a good day and 2.5 seconds slower on a bad day. I would give him 1:43.9 as a possibility.

It is not safe to assume this was an average race. It was a perfect race in perfect conditions with perfect pacing for these slow twitch guys. Jakob had someone to draft for 750m. He will never run 1:43 ever.

Well, Jakobs atleast of the opinion that he has proven himself. Vebjørn Rodal was one of the people saying that he was too slow. From the interview post race:

"I think many people see me differently now as a 1.46-runner than a 1.49. There is a pretty big difference with those three seconds, even if it doesn´t seem like much. It is pretty nice to get rid of the myth that I am very slow. I show what I can do today, and it´s more than good enough for 1500" - Jakob

2004 olympics they closed in 1:46

Mathias wrote:

Well, Jakobs atleast of the opinion that he has proven himself. Vebjørn Rodal was one of the people saying that he was too slow. From the interview post race:

"I think many people see me differently now as a 1.46-runner than a 1.49. There is a pretty big difference with those three seconds, even if it doesn´t seem like much. It is pretty nice to get rid of the myth that I am very slow. I show what I can do today, and it´s more than good enough for 1500" - Jakob

So his goal is just to make the Olympic finals? That's a bit lowrolling, but understandable.

His 1:46 compared to some of his competitors:

Makloufhi - 1:42.61

Cheruiyot - 1:43.11 (Nairobi 2019)

Lewanodwski - 1:43.72

Being okay with his 800m speed being 3-4s slower than his main competitors seems a bit odd. Maybe he thinks that El Guerrouj's 1:47 PR was his real ability level and that he can do the same as The Great. Too bad that this 800m PR was from 1995, long before his peak.

Coevett wrote:

As for ex-doper who lied about ever breaking 2 minutes and hasn't got the b a ll s to face me in a Parkrun next year, what you're saying is that Jakob is now around 4 seconds faster than Aouita was a age 22, when Aouita had been an 800m runner for years.

At the moment J Ingebrigtsen is 1 second faster than Aouita was at age 22, and Aouita had not been an 800m runner for years.

Well, all I can say is that they differ from your opinion in how much 800m speed is needed.

Gjerts take today: Does it (the 800 race) matter when it comes to winning the 1500m against the world's best?

– No, it doesn't matter. They have sufficient speed now to win anything now ranging from 1500-10000m. And the race today shows that, it's not a lack of speed. They have the speed they need.

Mathias wrote:

No, it doesn't matter. They have sufficient speed now to win anything now ranging from 1500-10000m. And the race today shows that, it's not a lack of speed. They have the speed they need.

A nice speedy time trial for the Bros! Name a faster pair of Bros!

They have enough speed to win an NCAA conference meet. However, to be champions of the WORLD at 1500 they need 1:43 or better!

Even in the MIGHTY USA you need 1:43 or better to be a national champ at 1500! Brazier and Murphy must take the baton now! Too bad Lester didn’t run today. This would have been excellent pacing for him! Wizard of Oz missed an opportunity.

‘96 Granville ran 1:46.4 in the CA High School Boys State Meet TRIALS! Well done!

1:46 speed is decent for 5k/10k but don’t underestimate the speed of CHAMPIONS. Most would be capable of sub 1:43 in peak conditions... Still a good time trial.

Expert of Experts wrote:

Name a faster pair of Bros!

The Borlée brothers.