50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

First off. Alf T, that's a helluva nice "first" effort. Bravo! You've been on quite a steep rise since you started posting, and this is just confirmation that you've retained a lot of that world-class talent. I suspect we'll be hearing a lot more as you establish your "new normal".

Mike F, I've got to get in a track race. The oval is beckoning me to lace up the spikes and go!

As to Charlie's conjecture; I get it. I, too, had found a prescription that I thought was working well for me, except for one problem; it was not sustainable, and I got sucked down the abyss of injury and frustration. I'm only now starting to feel like I'm coming out of that hole, thanks to finally owning up to my weak links. I think it's fair to say that we all experiment with different trajectories that we feel are based on good principles, with hopes that they'll work for us. It's hard to know what those are without some trial and error; and worse, as we age, we're moving targets. We have to continually make adjustments by paying attention for warning signs (hard to always know what those are, unfortunately) and not be tempted to reach for fruit too high on the tree before we've properly built the base that can support us. I'll be most curious to see how your approach works for you...sounds both reasonable and promising. Good luck!

Sustainable - that's a good word.

mon - 10 x 6 mins. steady with 30 sec walk recoveries on fairly smooth and gently rolling trails. 40 mins. kyak session.

tue - 8 x 3 mins. easy runs with 30 sec walk recoveries on 5k trail loop, 9k hilly, tech. trail, running solid to tempo efforts of 6 mins with 3 min easy jog recoveries finished with hard 3 mins on downhill. 14+k total.

wed - 1 hr 15 mins. mountain bike ride on rolling farm roads, windy.

thu - 8 x 3 min/30 sec. on 5k trail loop. 9k hilly tech. trail, ran as 15 mins, 12 mins, 9 mins, 6 mins with 30 sec recovery walks between. Each effort progressively harder, last 6 min effort covered about 1.6km of downhill. 14km total.

fri - 45 mins kyak. 11pm. 18 x 3 mins easy runs with 30 sec slow jog recoveries around town.

sat - 25km mountain bike ride, inc. a 7.5km climb.

sun - 1 hour 45 min steep, rough pole hike with full pack.

Also did a 30min hike with pack along a creek bed, some deep mud and a few deep pools, dropped the pack and ran 15 mins on some deep soft sand.

Great running Alf, thrilled to see your solid work pay off and great to see the working class hero of UK marathoning back and flying at 55 plus.

I like that mo"pak

mon 8:01 mile @ 75%

tues 7:40 mile 85%-92% hills 10x90sec

weds 9:00 mile @77%

thurs 7:00 mile 20/40/60 sec x 3 hills

fri 3 mile easy

sat 3 mile easy

sun race 10km 1st o/v 55yr 36:28 (9mile)

46:41 miles

Alan Bennet wrote:

Sustainable - that's a good word.

Funny how we all see things differently.

Main thing is that we have fun while venturing on our journey of one.

Sustainable fun!?

Alan Bennet wrote:

Sustainable fun!?

Exactly !:?)

Sustainable equates to not getting injured or burned out or stressed out over how fast/slow I am running

Fun means I am enjoying the training. This can lead to conflict sometimes fun can be overdone and lead to injury .

Some people enjoy and are rewarded with the process of seeing a good solid plan

to fruition. I can admire this and actually have on rare occasion done this.

At this point in my running life training plans more dynamic and running performance is taking a lower priority.

Bottom line is I feel really good with the 9+ months of training so far and look forward to my experiment of one.

Also It goes without saying I enjoy, admire and learn from the efforts and plans of my fellow seniors

Time to go run!

Charlie wrote:

Alan Bennet wrote:

Sustainable fun!?

Exactly !:?)

Sustainable equates to not getting injured or burned out or stressed out over how fast/slow I am running

Fun means I am enjoying the training. This can lead to conflict sometimes fun can be overdone and lead to injury .

Some people enjoy and are rewarded with the process of seeing a good solid plan

to fruition. I can admire this and actually have on rare occasion done this.

At this point in my running life training plans more dynamic and running performance is taking a lower priority.

Bottom line is I feel really good with the 9+ months of training so far and look forward to my experiment of one.

Also It goes without saying I enjoy, admire and learn from the efforts and plans of my fellow seniors

Time to go run!

Like it!

Charlie wrote:

Sustainable equates to not getting injured or burned out or stressed out over how fast/slow I am running

Fun means I am enjoying the training. This can lead to conflict sometimes fun can be overdone and lead to injury .

You guys crack me up! But yeah, I'm with you. I actually wrestled with that word choice, but I didn't think it would be a conversation starter. What I was thinking about when I used "sustainable" was how a few summers back I was knocking on 17-minutes. I was having so much "fun" running faster and with more ease than I ever thought this 4:30-HS-miler (re: Frank Shorter's quote) could race again. I just threw caution to the wind and ignored all the warning signs that I was in over my head (the fact that I suddenly went from a difficult 18:03 in April to a strong 17:20 by mid-june, for example). Any sensible coach would have no doubt seen immediately that I was peaking and needed to back off, but I rode it all the way 'til August trying to reach sub-17; that's when the engine seized up. It's what happens when you are self-coached, naive, and don't have the innate talent to support your desires (that damn id, again!).

We keep saying we're all an experiment-of-one, but sometimes the painful lessons learned apply pretty universally. I guess the sustainable part comes from the ego, and we know where the fun comes from.

lucKY2b wrote:

... when you ... don't have the innate talent to support your desires ...

In my book, the person who DOES have the talent to support their desires is an underachiever. With the proviso that I consider injury to be a measure of talent.

Robert Browning wrote:

Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, or what's a heaven for?

Update

my training is boring on the cycle until the last two!

I've been admitted for continuous infusion for 5 days due to the nature of the door number 3 cancer on the non-Hodgkin's lymphoma side. My indolent, typically, follicular lymphoma has a nasty side where it can transform into an aggressive cancer, which some of the nodes did, to Diffuse Large B Cell Lymphoma (dlbcl), which can be cured with chemo but my case is different due to the transformed aspect of the dlbcl.

So, for me, best course for cure of the dlbcl is knock it into remission, working on now, then bone marrow transplant for the cure. I' ll still have the follicular lymphoma, according to statistics anyway, but the dlbcl will be off the table, and then in 2 1/2 years I can take the Hodgkin's lymphoma off the table too.

Now, the bike workouts!

As expected, no bike on oncology ward. They find one in the psychiatric ward basement. They untether me from infusion machine, escort me down there where I climb on an abused, rickety air dyne bike with moving handles. Display not working so essentially do a 30 minute slow hill climb, loosely grabbing one handle with one arm while other with a picc line I let hang (picc long tube in vein from bicep to clavicle vein somewhere). I slog through this ride knowing I'm pumping fresh chemo to hopefully normalized tumor blood vessels. Felt powerful!

Today they deliver an old Monark belt tension bike to my room. Continuous infusion, bike, what a TRIUMPHANT ride! Most meaningful two workouts of my life!

Ken

ps go to marrow donor websites. They send you the swabs & return pouch, easy, you get in the registry, you may save a life! Thanks!

Ken, you are an inspiration to me, so glad you found a bike. Sure will think of you with these next days being what can be a b--ch of a challenge, and hopeful cure.

Will check out the marrow donor site later this weekend.

Started my first day of working in running specialty (Garry Gribble's Running Sports) yesterday, after 25 years of working in hospitals. Exciting to be helping people with their healthy activity needs.

Ken, great to hear of the triumphant rides! Having to take you into the psych ward to find a bike has some kind of black comedy value in the way you tell it. Good luck with it all As always.

Alf, congrats on the first race in many a year. I'd be interested to know how the body pulled up after the effort.

My own week:

Sun: 25km over rolling off course along river.

Mon: 60mins , Achilles rehab, core

Tues: Mona Fartlek

Wed: 90mins

Thurs: 8 x 400m with a 200 float (classic Aussie "quarters" session), 5 min jog, onto road for 15min tempo.

Fri: calf mucles suffering significant DOMS from track. 60mins

Sat: DOMS worse today... 5 x 4mins (2min jog rec).

Felt finally some fitness returning this week. The track session was slow (90secs for the 400s, 50secs for the floats) however it's a start and I can only improve... I hope. The level of soreness in my calves was a surprise. First time on a track in 2 years and in racing flats.... But still....

Have a good week all.

Dropped miles back this week (35 down from 52) but kicked up the intensity a bit. A goal for the year is to increase sleep hours, I'm struggling with that one.

SUN- 6.4, in the rain. Crossed paths and ran a few miles w/ the high schooler that won 1600/ 3200 at state indoor last week. Oh to be young again...

MON- 5.9, easy, strides

TUE- 5.5, middle three were between 7:13 and 7:20

WED AM- 3.5, 8x200 indoors avg :42

WED PM- 5, 7:27 pace with the group

THR- 3.3, treadmill progression, randomly increasing pace every 1/4 mile down to 5:34

FRI- off

SAT- 5, race, 19:26 for road 5K. 6:09, 6:22, 6:17, :39

Band and core routine on M, Tu and Thr

WOC...You are an inspiration on so many levels, keep it up.

Keep moving guys,

Edgewood

mon - 1 hour kyak session on the lake.

tue - 2 hour run, 8 x 3 min. easy, 30 sec walks then a continuous 45 mins on steep hilly trails followed by a fartlek mix for about 50 mins mostly along water channels. This was done as 3-6 min. efforts with 3 min jogs. Pretty warm, 34-37 deg. C (hi 90s F). Quite a few roos and wallabies splashing around in the channels to keep cool, also had a koala dash across in front of me.

wed - Rode the mountain bike up to the top of Mt Ida and back, about 90 mins all up.

thu - nothing.

fri - 1 hour kyak session on the lake.

sat - Spent most of the day at a nearby farming expo. My wife dropped me off about 22 kms, ran 7 x 3 mins easy with 30 sec walks. 12 min strong climb, 30 sec walk, 5 x 9 mins, 5 x 6 mins steady over hills with 30 sec walks, finished with a brisk 3 mins. 1 h 51 min running time for around 21k of running mixed with a total of 9 mins of walking, dirt farm/forest roads and trails. Temps in the mid 30sC/90sF.

Today, nothing so far but intend to head out for a ride later this afternoon/evening.

I probably won't do any significant running over the next few days, let the legs and feet have a bit of healing time.

I'm leaving for Tasmania mid week to hike the rugged South Coast Trail. We get dropped off at an airfield (Malaleuca) then are on our own on largely unmanaged wilderness trail for about 7 days. Any recent rain can leave these tracks knee deep mud for kms. At the other end we connect with the end of Australia's southern most road at Cockle Creek. This is pretty much real wilderness walking. Looks like great fun but quite challenging. We will have zero contact with the "civilised world" until we reach Cockle Creek. We will carry an EPIRB in case of serious problems (snake bite, broken legs etc).

Ken, I loved the photo (facebook) of you spinning on the bike with "Betty" attached.

sun - 1 hr 45 mins solid riding through the forest to finish off the week.

First off, Ken, I was thinking of the “experiment-of-one” comments of last week, and how most of our experiments have value primarily for ourselves, but your experiment carries much larger implications. I admire your tenacity and steadfastness as you pave new ground into cancer therapy. I’m certainly praying that it proves most fruitful. Continued Godspeed on this journey.

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Week 89

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Great stuff already posted up this week! Thanks for keeping this ball rolling! By most accounts, it was an undisciplined week for me. The constant interruptions of daily life made for pigeon-holing of my training (or maybe that is the norm around here), but I still managed to get in about 45 miles for the week. The log reads as such:

Sun: 7 w/5@6:36 avg. pace (but highly variable)

Mon: 1.3 (wrenched my knee :-(, so quit after it didn’t loosen up.)

Tue: 8 easy w/5 on grass

Wed: 7 w/1.4@6:05 pace +post-run+upper+dynamic

Thur: 5 easy +post-run+static+balance

Fri: 7.4 w/3.4 accel from 7:30 to 5:30 pace +post-run+upper

Sat: 9.3 easy (4 am, 5.3 pm mostly on grass) +post-run+dynamic+balance

Reflections:

Sunday was really more like two back-to-back 2.5-mile acceleration runs, with about a 45s rest in the middle. I wrenched my knee while demonstrating Newton’s 3rd law in lecture on Monday. I couldn't seem to work it out during my afternoon run….so I quit not wanting to risk more serious damage. By Tuesday, it was “better”, but still a little tender; I ran a lot on grass, which seemed to help. Wednesday onward felt more like a normal week, but I stayed away from the squats this week, owing to Monday’s debacle. Even so, my faster pace stuff on Wednesday felt weak and lethargic. Friday’s hard effort felt much better and it evolved into an acceleration run. According to the Garmin, the pace was remarkably linear in its increase, so the average over the 3.4 miles was 6:29, with the last 1.4 averaging to 5:55 pace, and the last .4 was 5:39 pace; I followed it with another 4 easy (7:30 pace) miles. Saturday afternoon I was going to do some stairs, but a large lunch that didn't digest well, left me feeling bloated the rest of the day, so I just ran on easy grass. I was surprised that I struggled completing my balance routines after not doing any balance work Sun-Wed, so that is a lesson that I’ll have to remain vigilant with these. Dread is probably too strong a word, but these really are uncomfortable for me; some of the muscles in my shin that control my toes really get fatigued as I struggle to maintain balance over the two minutes that I continuously remain on one leg (it’s especially bad on my right leg). Also, the tinnitus (ringing in the ears) that comes and goes doesn't help (note: I'd never had persistent tinnitus until last fall, now I routinely wake up with it; it’ll usually subside as the day goes on. Anyone else get this?)

OK, hopefully the knee fully settles in the next day or so, and I can get back to doing my squats. I really want to graduate to lunges and on to dynamic drills before the late spring of racing begins.

I hope that everything is going well in your sphere. As always, I love to hear what you've got going on---be it training, racing, or recovery---it’s all good.

May your runs have purpose, may you run them with resolve.

Lucky,

I blame my tinnitus on The Who and Springsteen.

E'wood

Edgewood wrote:I blame my tinnitus on The Who and Springsteen.

---and the list goes on, no doubt.....more wreckage of our youth. I often do an experiment with my physics classes when we get to sound. I play a pure tone, and ask the students to all raise their hand. I then slowly increase the pitch, asking students to drop their hand when they no longer hear the tone. I start at about 10kHz, and mine cuts out pretty soon there after (about 11kHz). All the kid's hands stay up pretty much to 14kHz, then they slowly start coming down. Most are down by 18kHz, but occasionally someone might still hear the tone at 20kHz, but that's rare. Not sure this has anything to do with tinnitus, but OK. My tinnitus is the ringing type, and it's right around 10kHz. BTW-you can test your own hearing here:

Cheers!