Ah, I see - yeh, that's true. I see your point. I don't know why he doesn't just transfer ownership of the document to his former athletes. It's very easy.
There's a huge difference between copying Bryan Johnson or some other biohacker and taking large doses of methylene blue, and paying someone who calls themselves a 'world class coach' money to coach them. Ethical standards change with professional coaches because authority amplifies consequences. What may be acceptable as consumer wellness advice becomes ethically questionable when presented - implicitly or explicitly - as elite-level physiological insight.
A coaching client may reasonably infer that their coach is providing high-quality, accurate advice that is compatible with elite-level decision-making. Moreover, it's not the responsibility of the client to acquire the scientific expertise to independently evaluate the training benefits and health hazards of a particular method of training; and nor should they be expected to.
Ethically, the higher the implied authority, the higher the burden of care. Someone who is an elite athlete AND a coach occupies a position of unequal influence. A coach is perceived not merely as a role model, they are also seen as an applied expert with a duty of care, a quasi-professional authority, and a decision-maker for others’ training and health. Coaches need not even be malicious to act unethically; ethical failure can arise simply from endorsing methods whose uncertainty is hidden behind exaggerated performance benefits.
The ethical aspect of Roche's behaviour is why SafeSport are likely to become involved. Roche has failed utterly in his duty of care to many of his athletes.
Also, I never signed a waiver. I just gave him money.
David was just saying on the podcast about how proud he is about being able to go behind the scenes at Championship meets without a coaching certification through his 'career accomplishments' as opposed to being certified through the USATF. Do you know what else you need? To be US Safe Sport certified and have a background check done. Maybe he needs these as well, I'm not sure. However, US Safe Sport specifically calls out the power imbalances that exist within coaching during their trainings.
I am surprised that he had no waiver! I wonder if that's his way of appearing more trustworthy and approachable?
SWAP is all about presenting an image of cordiality, trust, and coziness. The positivity, the piousness, the science-based training, and the passive-aggressive bragging is all a persona, it's not real. I don't think I was the first girl to ever be taken in by an extremely convincing con-man. But being totally new to trail running, how was I to know any better? I had no idea what to expect from a coach. I only spoke to David twice in 18 months; an initial 20 minute chat, and once when I missed a payment! That was one of the reasons I stopped working with him. The other was, I learned that the 'elite' athletes he coaches don't pay him.
Whether or not SafeSport take action is not up to me, but they can't ignore complaints forever! I started working with David after he won Leadville in 2024. He came across as fairly 'professional' then. But the more attention the Roche's have received, the more outrageous and extreme their behaviour become. And sadly this has bled over into their coaching practice. They seem completely unable to consistently prioritize an athlete’s well-being over their own egos now. When I was injured, I was ignored. So the more we speak about it, the more likely athletes are to come forward.
It's clear Roche has developed what in my profession might be described as a narcissistic personality disorder. Coaching is a relational profession, it's not just a training plan. Extreme narcissism undermines the relational foundation required to coach responsibly. Without meaningful self-regulation and external accountability, a narcissist will do more harm than good. He needs some kind of reprimand from an official body to get him back on track.
David has low empathy. He either doesn't understand when one of his athletes is very fatigued or in an emotional state or coming close to injury, or he simply doesn't care. His behaviour is control-oriented. The training plan never changes, it never adapts based on feedback, and it gets deleted as soon as you stop paying him. He NEEDS admiration. His coaching is all about success and image, not athlete development. And he responds very poorly to criticism. All textbook narcissistic personality disorder.
he literally flew 100 feet though the air and survived, and then took down an old masters record from a race no elites run. so he can do whatever he wants.
he literally flew 100 feet though the air and survived, and then took down an old masters record from a race no elites run. so he can do whatever he wants.
He would beat any elite at Leadville. And he did fly 100 ft everyone who was there can confirm.
it's "weird take" again.... please tell us how he never said it, but "iT wAs iN thE PolicE RePort!"
Yeh, looks like their back. It's interesting to watch the dynamics of this thread. You really have to sift through the BS and crude responses, mostly from the SWAP stans...or David himself, to get to the point. But I guess that's LetsRun for you.
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
What do you call a hater that looks at all his Strava posts? Obsessed?
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
What do you call a hater that looks at all his Strava posts? Obsessed?
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
What do you call a hater that looks at all his Strava posts? Obsessed?
Says the anonymous account within an hour of my post to this thread you keep monitoring in a totally non-obsessive way.
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
"There’s something very Proustian about insisting someone else is obsessed, while keeping a mental ledger of their Strava captions. One of those salon figures who prides themselves on clear-eyed detachment, while quietly following every movement they claim to disdain. Legrandin springs to mind.
As Tadié points out about Proust’s world, observation is never neutral—it always reveals the observer’s own investments. The more detailed the accounting, the harder it is to sustain the pose of not caring."
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
"There’s something very Proustian about insisting someone else is obsessed, while keeping a mental ledger of their Strava captions. One of those salon figures who prides themselves on clear-eyed detachment, while quietly following every movement they claim to disdain. Legrandin springs to mind.
As Tadié points out about Proust’s world, observation is never neutral—it always reveals the observer’s own investments. The more detailed the accounting, the harder it is to sustain the pose of not caring."
Dude does it damn near every activity. How hard do you think that is to remember “Claude?” And how “detailed” do you have to be to notice how someone constantly behaves?
The last time David had a Strava activity that didn’t include an attempted clever title or paragraph + long post - Zwift ride on February 7. “Morning run” is ok once in a while dude. I can’t imagine the pressure of feeling like every time I exercise I had to prepare a full on social media post to entertain my adoring fans.
"There’s something very Proustian about insisting someone else is obsessed, while keeping a mental ledger of their Strava captions. One of those salon figures who prides themselves on clear-eyed detachment, while quietly following every movement they claim to disdain. Legrandin springs to mind.
As Tadié points out about Proust’s world, observation is never neutral—it always reveals the observer’s own investments. The more detailed the accounting, the harder it is to sustain the pose of not caring."
So both Roaches are DNS for Canyons, looks like he’s gonna have to take a “Feed” sponsor spot for Western States! He sure makes them enough money slingin’ kEtOneZ
Yeah, what's crazy is the multiple pivots of their ketones shilling as their claims have been proven false claims over the last 2 and half years. The first phase was to take this to run a PR today, it's the super fuel to help you run at higher intensities longer! But that turned out to be false and also inhibited carb metabolism. Then the narrative changed to the second phase and the claim pivoted to take this to recover better to run harder tomorrow and boost EPO levels by 20%! That turned to be very mixed/maybe possible but insignificant and you do not want to necessarily reduce inflammation. Now we are the third phase since the other two have been proven false. Take this for cognitive benefit, also guess what (to the benefit of companies and shillers) you don't just have to take intra or post workout but anytime you need a cognitive boost too! Which is just a hard thing to make objective as measuring mental sharpness is almost purely anecdotal.