Fat hurts wrote:
ajrtjr wrote:
Lest anyone be misled by FH's post: I have read the whole Bible, and reading "in context" it's quite clear that JC said what he meant and meant what he said--that is, if you believe the Bible quoted him accurately (which I realize is a separate debate that I won't go into)!
There are a lot of people who, for a variety of reasons, do not want to follow the clear meaning of JC's words and so "reinterpret" them in ways that reinforce how they are already living their lives. That does not gainsay what JC actually said and what it actually means.
In fact, there are Christian sects that do try to follow the Torah rules, precisely because they take JC's words at face value, and so they don't eat pigs, get tattoos, etc.
And if there's a seeming conflict between the words of JC--whom Christians consider the perfect man--and the words of Paul, the author of the letter to the Hebrews and an imperfect man, then they side with JC...even if they might prefer to eat pigs, not be circumcised, get tats, and so on.
I do not mean to hijack the thread and will not post again in this sequence. Fat Hurts can have the last word on the subject!--and then let's get back to discussing things Trump.
OK. I'll gladly take this opportunity to express my views.
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Then Jesus goes on to teach about the law. In continuing the Sermon on the Mount, he says,
21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
So just being angry with your brother is akin to murder. This is a reinterpretation of the law.
Jesus goes on to say:
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
So looking at woman lustfully, is just as bad as sleeping with your neighbor's wife. Another reinterpretation.
Three verses later, Jesus says:
31 “It has been said, ‘Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.’[f] 32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Again, reinterpretation of the law.
I could go on with more examples, just from this same Sermon.
You mentioned working on the Sabbath (Saturday). Jesus was chided for healing on the Sabbath, which was considered breaking the law. Jesus ate with sinners, also something considered against the Torah.
I'm not taking anything out of context. All the verses I posted are part of the same sermon by Jesus.
And I'm not trying to reinterpret anything for my own purposes. I certainly don't want to love my enemies (verse 44). The fact is, what Jesus taught is tougher for us to follow than the old Jewish interpretation of the law.
It is extremely clear that Jesus was teaching a new interpretation of the law that emphasized the motive of the person over the legalism of strict adherence.
Jesus freed us from the old rules, but not the old law. That's why he said about the law, "I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." Preaching fulfillment of the law is a much different thing than preaching adherence to the old way of thinking.
I grant you that there are a few modern Christians who still try to abide by the old orthodox rules and rituals.
But the charge against modern Christians who eat pork and work on Saturday is absurd. Jesus taught us that we are free to do these things. As Jesus says in Mark 2:27, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath."
It was Jesus himself who freed us from the bondage of legalism. The rest of the New Testament supports this idea emphatically. There is no conflict.
I'll close by saying I'm glad that you have read the Bible. I wish more people would. So very few even try to understand its meaning. But those who do often find a rich lesson of love and salvation beyond their wildest imagination. As Jesus also said in the Sermon on the Mount, "Small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Here's to hoping that everyone on the this board can find and follow that narrow road.