Official Russia vs Ukraine War Thread

ceccione wrote:

SLObispo wrote:

I had some time to read your posts. Thanks again.

My thoughts; it's interesting people don't discuss the history, as you claim. That would be a way to avoid how things started, certainly. I read the Guardian article about the Maidan crowd getting violent and it seems like the start, as you note.

I watched some videos of that November 2013 violence too. The crowd was mixed. Many seemed peaceful but they did not hold back those wanting violence who were among them in the crowd. What a shame. It seems like these crowds should have been content after they booted the Russian friendly president of the time to join the EU. They weren't though.

The Euromaidan was a success. They re-aligned with the EU yet Ukraine backed Nazis targeted people based on their ethnicity because they were angry those same people held a democratic election in Crimea and overwhelmingly decided to return to Russia. They did this before Russia was ever in the Donbas. Ukraine started an entire new level of problem themselves. The government in Kyiv armed Nazi paramilitary to do this Donbas invading fascism. As a result, they have lost more land to Russia. Tough lesson.

ceccione wrote:

SLObispo wrote:

I had some time to read your posts. Thanks again.

My thoughts; it's interesting people don't discuss the history, as you claim. That would be a way to avoid how things started, certainly. I read the Guardian article about the Maidan crowd getting violent and it seems like the start, as you note.

I watched some videos of that November 2013 violence too. The crowd was mixed. Many seemed peaceful but they did not hold back those wanting violence who were among them in the crowd. What a shame. It seems like these crowds should have been content after they booted the Russian friendly president of the time to join the EU. They weren't though.

The Euromaidan was a success. They re-aligned with the EU yet Ukraine backed Nazis targeted people based on their ethnicity because they were angry those same people held a democratic election in Crimea and overwhelmingly decided to return to Russia. They did this before Russia was ever in the Donbas. Ukraine started an entire new level of problem themselves. The government in Kyiv armed Nazi paramilitary to do this Donbas invading fascism. As a result, they have lost more land to Russia. Tough lesson.

ceccione wrote:

Nothing about UkroNazis starting the first violence November 24th 2013. Wiki omits this altogether but it was confirmed by the Guardian. Videos of that day also show OUN Nazi flag carriers in the mostly peaceful crowd were the ones starting the violence against police.

This Wiki blip on Nov 2013 is correct but also lacks the first committed war-starting violence details:

In November 2013, a wave of large, pro-European Union (EU) protests erupted in response to Yanukovych's sudden decision not to sign the EU–Ukraine Association Agreement, instead choosing closer ties to Russia and the Eurasian Economic Union

Nothing about the November violence on Wiki. Hmmm. Here is what Wiki does not explain which started this war:

From the day that started all the violence, Nov. 24th 2013. The mostly peaceful crowd urged the neo-Nazis among them NOT to
provoke the police. They did anyway:

“Tens of thousands of people held a peaceful meeting on European Square demanding Yanukovych abolish the decree and sack the government. But after the meeting, several hundred protesters rushed to the government headquarters demanding the government's resignation and that of the presidential administration. People threw smoke bombs and stones at police and shouted "Revolution!" Opposition politicians tried to calm the crowd but without success. The police responded by deploying teargas.”
.

Link:www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/24/...

Trollstoy_ wrote:

There are other posts about Ukraine supporting Nazis. I was shocked also. I have been a lifelong Democrat so this is disappointing to say the least. If you read further down the article, near the bottom, it explains Russia is against Nazification while Ukraine and America support Nazification at the United Nations itself. You can’t write this stuff. It is really happening. Russia walks the walk. Ukraine and America don’t even talk the talk. They are moving towards Nazification:

"On December 17, Ukraine voted against a United Nations General Assembly resolution that aimed to combat the "glorification of Nazism, neo-Nazism and other practices that contribute to fuelling contemporary forms of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance," according to Tass news agency. The United States also voted against the measure, although 129 nations supported the move.

The resolution was put forward by Russia. Nikolai Patrushev, secretary of the Russian Security Council slammed Ukraine and the U.S. for their opposition."