Alex Hutchinson calls out CANOVA over study confirming EPO works on Kenyan runners

oh do tell...what is your masters in?

that would mean you had to have earned a BS in some sort of science field, where was that at? please dont tell me it was from grand canyon online

and then where did you get your masters? if you did that you would have had to do a research paper, thesis or dissertation...which would mean you might have gotten it published....so can we see it? talk the big talk then prove it

Mr Canova- I have loosely followed this thread but have read through the same arguments from other past discussions on the topic. If I understand you correctly it is theorized that if you are born and train at altitude (with proper training) an athlete will have gained the maximal amount of oxygen carrying capicity that the organism can handle...they will not benefit from epo. But don't organisms adapt over time? And once an equilibrium within the system has been reached...can that ceiling continue to be raised?

The other question is how has this knowledge that epo is not significant for someone with proper training born at altitude...how has this been concluded? Is it through anecdotal research studying elite athletes? And if so....well isn't that poor sportsmanship/cheating....even though it might not be going on now....it was and now that athlete /group of athletes have that psychological advantage over others. Because now they truly know they have reached their physical potential? They know for a fact now that epo will not work...they have seen the conclusive data? Doesn't that give them a leg up over athletes that go into competition believing that epo does work and some athletes are using?

I think it is hard to watch some performances where you are seeing very talented athletes that are clean as a whistle breathing hard and struggling in the back of a 5k international race while the leaders are still breathing through their nostrils without a wince of pain anywhere on their faces...and they still have energy for a celebration victory dance at the end....it's hard to watch talented athletes getting squashed.

m!ndweak wrote:

oh do tell...what is your masters in?

that would mean you had to have earned a BS in some sort of science field, where was that at? please dont tell me it was from grand canyon online

and then where did you get your masters? if you did that you would have had to do a research paper, thesis or dissertation...which would mean you might have gotten it published....so can we see it? talk the big talk then prove it

What degree do you have?

You talk the big talk, so prove you have the background to do it.

PS: You are fvcking annoying with the way you write your posts. I wish you could express yourself like an adult.

The other concern is cheating in the off season...using drugs to aid/speed recovery how prevelant do you think this is in running at the professional level and how well do you think this is being monitored?

yttrhrt wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

oh do tell...what is your masters in?

that would mean you had to have earned a BS in some sort of science field, where was that at? please dont tell me it was from grand canyon online

and then where did you get your masters? if you did that you would have had to do a research paper, thesis or dissertation...which would mean you might have gotten it published....so can we see it? talk the big talk then prove it

What degree do you have?

You talk the big talk, so prove you have the background to do it.

PS: You are fvcking annoying with the way you write your posts. I wish you could express yourself like an adult.

Please...and you don't think rekrunner is fvcking annoying with his pretentious, sanctimonious; self-righteous, holier-than-thou posting style? Or Canova, who demeans, humiliates & belittles any poster who would dare suggest that the almighty Kenyans "living & training at altitude," would get a performance benefit from EPO?

Nope -- too personal. Maybe everything is relative, but I don't think claiming I have a masters degree is "big talk". Yes, it was some sort of science field. I got both my BS and MS science degrees at top nationally ranked universities in the USA. For some odd reason you claimed I did not have any science degree -- you talk the small talk, can you prove it?

m!ndweak wrote:

oh do tell...what is your masters in?

that would mean you had to have earned a BS in some sort of science field, where was that at? please dont tell me it was from grand canyon online

and then where did you get your masters? if you did that you would have had to do a research paper, thesis or dissertation...which would mean you might have gotten it published....so can we see it? talk the big talk then prove it

I'm calling you out on this one wrote:

Please...and you don't think rekrunner is fvcking annoying with his pretentious, sanctimonious; self-righteous, holier-than-thou posting style? Or Canova, who demeans, humiliates & belittles any poster who would dare suggest that the almighty Kenyans "living & training at altitude," would get a performance benefit from EPO?

No, I don't.

But at least I express my ideas like an adult.

I'm calling you out on this one wrote:

yttrhrt wrote:

What degree do you have?

You talk the big talk, so prove you have the background to do it.

PS: You are fvcking annoying with the way you write your posts. I wish you could express yourself like an adult.

Please...and you don't think rekrunner is fvcking annoying with his pretentious, sanctimonious; self-righteous, holier-than-thou posting style? Or Canova, who demeans, humiliates & belittles any poster who would dare suggest that the almighty Kenyans "living & training at altitude," would get a performance benefit from EPO?

I guess if you say so -- I wouldn't know about that. I'm more a scientist than artist.

Obfuscatory degree wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

If you are talking about me, I have a masters degree in science.

Obfuscation in more of an art.

No, I am not.

What? My burden? To prove that this new study, published in September 2018, "was new"? That's just lame trolling, not funny in the least, not even by your standards.

What? Are you asking me? You are the one who allegedly has read on an earlier study about Kenyan runners with EPO by the same authors, yet mysteriously you never linked that, and it doesn't show on Yannis' publication list. And now you don't know whether or not those were 1:03 half marathon runners, along with two mid-distance runners?

What? We have now over 10 pages talking about this 2018 study, as linked repeatedly, and now you pretend you talked all the time about some earlier studies, e.g. when you wrote "the authors" or "this study"? Tell that to your grandma.

Also, I doubt that you have read such a study about the Kenyans. Evidence? If you did, how come you don't know whether or not those were 1:03 half marathon runners, along with two mid-distance runners?

Probably you saw a misleading tweet from a hasty journalist about Yannis' short interim presentation at WADA, that you don't remember well, instead of reading a study. From that, you then made up your typical nonsense to downplay its importance.

rekrunner wrote:

If you are talking about me, I have a masters degree in science.

Now this is actually funny, in particular in light of the nonsense you just wrote here.

rekrunner wrote:

I guess if you say so -- I wouldn't know about that. I'm more a scientist than artist.

Obfuscatory degree wrote:

Obfuscation in more of an art.

You're not much of either.

Are you using your Science degree for anything more than obfuscation?

rekrunner wrote:

But at least I express my ideas like an adult.

I'm calling you out on this one wrote:

Please...and you don't think rekrunner is fvcking annoying with his pretentious, sanctimonious; self-righteous, holier-than-thou posting style? Or Canova, who demeans, humiliates & belittles any poster who would dare suggest that the almighty Kenyans "living & training at altitude," would get a performance benefit from EPO?

Says who? Jon O?

JonO. wrote:

Can't Believe What I'm Hearing wrote:

Huh? You're weird JonO.

Yes I'm weird because I try to tell you people how naive your beliefs are. But other people might be reading and see how pseudoscientific these claim are.

So tell me once again, how does having 25% more red blood cells allow your body to produce 10% more heat without you passing out in less than 30 seconds?

Actually the opposite of what you are arguing is the truth, a stronger stroke volume via either epo or a quality transfusion cools the body, the heart is using less energy with each beat. Hence the story of elite cyclists needing to be woken during the night because their pulse had dropped below 30. These cyclists were hardly overheating.

JonO. wrote:

Tour da Lance wrote:

Don't start with the Armstrong stuff

Lance is the perfect example of how EPO is NOT a performance enhancer. His much touted supposedly impossible Alpe d'Huez climb was 6 watts per kilo, a normal power output for an elite cyclist.

Get Durianrider on here or someone who at least knows something about cycling.

You want to sustain a fairy tale scenario of magic potions giving superhuman strength.

You need a reality check.

Durianrider will tell all the elites are cheating with drugs.

Tour da Lance wrote:

Cheesy post JO....LA is the perfect example of how EPO & other PEDs are performance enhancing. Has your memory slipped a little bit?

https://youtu.be/mddOkbr2cyY

Yet people will still deny it.

Subway Surfers wrote:

JonO. wrote:

Yes I'm weird because I try to tell you people how naive your beliefs are. But other people might be reading and see how pseudoscientific these claim are.

So tell me once again, how does having 25% more red blood cells allow your body to produce 10% more heat without you passing out in less than 30 seconds?

Actually the opposite of what you are arguing is the truth, a stronger stroke volume via either epo or a quality transfusion cools the body, the heart is using less energy with each beat. Hence the story of elite cyclists needing to be woken during the night because their pulse had dropped below 30. These cyclists were hardly overheating.

Also the demand to suck wind is eliminated. A large quantity of oxygen is paradoxically required to just work the breathing muscles adequately in order to bring the good stuff in.

With EPO or blood doping the demand is reduced to that of a diving whale. The blood is saturated.

Subway Surfers wrote:

JonO. wrote:

Lance is the perfect example of how EPO is NOT a performance enhancer. His much touted supposedly impossible Alpe d'Huez climb was 6 watts per kilo, a normal power output for an elite cyclist.

Get Durianrider on here or someone who at least knows something about cycling.

You want to sustain a fairy tale scenario of magic potions giving superhuman strength.

You need a reality check.

Durianrider will tell all the elites are cheating with drugs.

He also doped himself to prove it works. Hopefully JO tries that to put his theory to rest.

Of course he's tell you he developed springier feet as a placebo side effect.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

If you are talking about me, I have a masters degree in science.

Now this is actually funny, in particular in light of the nonsense you just wrote here.

Yes his dissertation was title, "How I doped Paula to world record levels."