BAREGA MF BAREGA 12:43!!

this is best article out there and

So far barely a whisper on its use.

Need more Investigative journos

getting athlete's to speak out

whether hide identity or not.

Considering at same stage of epo use

by now public knew all about its existence and said they had a test .

This igf-1 is a massive piece of current doping , but not magic .

And not cheap and still hard to get hands on legit pharma grade.

Consider others in race running around 13 mins using it too but not doping aerobically ,the difference here.

Like sprints not magic some top out at 10.20 others 10.00 after that largely other dope unless naturally hormones firing at high which rare.

As for his age , see using this when young gives best enhancement .

So for me showing close to reported age

As like jacob too but could he dope

for aerobic side the same ,doubt it and be like a Ben true ,gasping at end .

rocker spaniel wrote:

F this sport. It's not worth my heart or dollars anymore.

Cheaters win and the honest get screwed. And we are being asked to pay for it all.

Don't be so pessimistic. It's better than it has been.

The times in Brussels aren't surprising knowing what an excellent pacer Kejelcha functioned as. The difference pacing can make was seen in the Sub-2 attempt.

On the contrary, I don't think it is about EPO at all.

New World of 21st Century Doping wrote:

And that silly rekrunner thinks it's all about EPO. The speed peptide could be the big one with first world nations, while the Africans are still going old school doping with EPO & roids/HGH...and paying a costly price by testing positive.

I've thought about it, and this thread is about BAREGA 12:43. That is impressive at any age. First, I wouldn't trust what people on this and other message boards say that they know, without corroboration, and second, it is a red-herring.

I was unimpressed by Daly's documentary, and found his personal experiment uncompelling. For one, he didn't measure his performance. And he didn't have enough points for an ABP profile.

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

Great stuff there Subway! ?. The investigation on Wells was fascinating. Daly's significant improvement in VO2max & power output utilizing a microdosing regime that didn't flag his ABP is compelling.

How about the professor from Zurich who is one of the world's leading experts on the effect of EPO on athletes; "more oxygen, more power, the faster you go." This is a good documentary for LRC's two biggest skeptics, rekrunner & Jon Orange, to learn a little something from.

+1

First fast as crap race since 2012...think about that. 2 races in 12 years that had 3 under 12:50....amazing.

I of course meant 6 years.

rekrunner wrote:

I was unimpressed by Daly's documentary, and found his personal experiment uncompelling. For one, he didn't measure his performance. And he didn't have enough points for an ABP profile.

I found it fascinating and insightful...it was a great find by Subway!

And Daly did measure his performance: his VO2max went from 58 baseline to 63 and cycling power output improved 7% over 7 weeks. He himself said at the completion of grueling 3 hr training rides in the cold & dampness, when he should have been "wasted" he was "fresh as a daisy." I believe he also said he had to quit training with friends as they were becoming suspicious of his training improvement. Improved recovery is one of the foundations of EPO in endurance-based training.

On your second point: He had 3 blood screens over 3 weeks (one per week) before he started the EPO dosing regjme. That would have been enough to establish a baseline Hct/Hgb and determine his baseline Off-score. He says he had one blood draw per week over the next few months of the dosing period. Say, for example, he was doing a much higher dose and increases his retics, and Hgb 15% - 20% over baseline that would have been enough to breach the upper parameter and raise a red flag warranting target testing. Depending if it was a one time breach or a pattern of continual breaches, it could open a passport hematological case. At the very least it would be construed as "likely doping."

Remember the Savinova case where her ABP was never flagged but when reviewed retrospectively by anti-doping experts, 2 out of 3 deemed the data as "likely doping," especially the IC blood draws after she won gold at 2011 WC & London. Of course, "better to be lucky than good" doper Poistagova had a completely normal appearing passport though she admitted to using EPO (and roids) in the lead up to London.

And in closing...remember what the professor and one of the leading expert on the effects of rEPO said; "more oxygen, more power, the faster you go." ?

You think it was a great find, but it actually wasn't ever lost, and it is old news.

I don't find a reporter doing an unblinded, uncontrolled EPO experiment on himself, and not measuring performance, and not controlling his training before or during the experiment, fascinating or insightful for real world elite competitions.

VO2max and power output is not performance, but proxies for performance.

Not sure what your second point is -- if he breached an upper parameter, this would have raised a red flag? That seems tautological. In any case, he did not collect enough data points for a longitudinal profile.

I didn't forget what the professor said, but I'm waiting to see his data. Is he expressing the theory, or does he have practical experience in real world situations? What does this professor know about elite performance?

rekrunner wrote:

You think it was a great find, but it actually wasn't ever lost, and it is old news.

I don't find a reporter doing an unblinded, uncontrolled EPO experiment on himself, and not measuring performance, and not controlling his training before or during the experiment, fascinating or insightful for real world elite competitions.

VO2max and power output is not performance, but proxies for performance.

Not sure what your second point is -- if he breached an upper parameter, this would have raised a red flag? That seems tautological. In any case, he did not collect enough data points for a longitudinal profile.

I didn't forget what the professor said, but I'm waiting to see his data. Is he expressing the theory, or does he have practical experience in real world situations? What does this professor know about elite performance?

Probably hell of a lot more than you do! Lol.

Sonething doesn't seem right about an 18 yr old running 12:43 with a 55.0 last lap, just like Jakob 3:31 unless:

1. They are phenoms who are already training at high volume with little progrssion in the future.

2. They are on some very good pergormance enchancing drugs.

3. They arent foung high volume yet and will increase their training but still only make marginal improvement.

4. They will rewrite the record books and be busted of drug use later in career.

5. They are clean and will rewrite the record books of middle and long distance running.

I dont know which it is but I sure with almost 95% certainty it isnt number 5.

Come back to me when you can expand on the professor's credentials without using the word "probably". Sounds like he is repeating theory.

What's up with this? wrote:

Probably hell of a lot more than you do! Lol.

Out of curiosity, how much have you paid to "the sport"? Regarding "paying for it all", I thought sponsors generally pay the athletes, and subsidize events, and we mostly pay when we buy shoes, shirts, shorts, and other gear -- maybe some small part comes from fans who pay to watch events in person.

rocker spaniel wrote:

F this sport. It's not worth my heart or dollars anymore.

Cheaters win and the honest get screwed. And we are being asked to pay for it all.

Follow me on YouTube

sammy atkins

rekrunner wrote:

Come back to me when you can expand on the professor's credentials without using the word "probably".

Sounds like he is repeating theory.

0/10 ?

Everyone's looking for an edge wrote:

How about the professor from Zurich who is one of the world's leading experts on the effect of EPO on athletes; "more oxygen, more power, the faster you go." This is a good documentary for LRC's two biggest skeptics, rekrunner & Jon Orange, to learn a little something from.

Yes somewhere JO just jumped off a bridge.

VIPAM wrote:

Sonething doesn't seem right about an 18 yr old running 12:43 with a 55.0 last lap, just like Jakob 3:31 unless:

1. They are phenoms who are already training at high volume with little progrssion in the future.

2. They are on some very good pergormance enchancing drugs.

3. They arent foung high volume yet and will increase their training but still only make marginal improvement.

4. They will rewrite the record books and be busted of drug use later in career.

5. They are clean and will rewrite the record books of middle and long distance running.

I dont know which it is but I sure with almost 95% certainty it isnt number 5.

Exactly

Yes it’s the best article out there. I’m disappointed that there’s none of the names have been leaked from the NFL, MBL or Olympic althetes in Michael’s client list. The only person in trouble from this case is the athlete from ALTIS