Anyone who thinks Caster's a woman seriously needs to see a shrink
Anyone who thinks Caster's a woman seriously needs to see a shrink
Spinachrunner wrote:
Anyone who thinks Caster's a woman seriously needs to see a shrink
+1
ex-runner wrote:
I'll add to that that Almaz Ayana has demonstrated about the same advantage as Semenya in the 10k. It was more until Semenya's recent run.
Rudisha also demonstrated a similar advantage.
Latiskene has a much bigger advantage than Semenya and a longer win streak.
Bolt had a bigger advantage in the 100 and 200.
I'm not saying that Semenya doesn't have an unfair advantage, but in terms of actual numbers/data it's difficult to tell her apart from other athletes that dominate in their events. What does set her apart is her physical appearance.
Ha? Semenya typically doesn't try for 600m and then smashes other intersex things (Wambui & maybe Niyonsaba), Ajee "tainted steaks" Wilson, and all those doped up African, Russian & Ukrainian women over the years. The women's 800m really is a freak show.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
I'll add to that that Almaz Ayana has demonstrated about the same advantage as Semenya in the 10k. It was more until Semenya's recent run.
Rudisha also demonstrated a similar advantage.
Latiskene has a much bigger advantage than Semenya and a longer win streak.
Bolt had a bigger advantage in the 100 and 200.
I'm not saying that Semenya doesn't have an unfair advantage, but in terms of actual numbers/data it's difficult to tell her apart from other athletes that dominate in their events. What does set her apart is her physical appearance.
Ha? Semenya typically doesn't try for 600m and then smashes other intersex things (Wambui & maybe Niyonsaba), Ajee "tainted steaks" Wilson, and all those doped up African, Russian & Ukrainian women over the years. The women's 800m really is a freak show.
This is based on her last effort. 56.1 through 400m then slowed to a 58.1. That's a very typical and expected slow down in a maximal or near maximal 800m effort and indicates 1:52 is too hot for Semenya.
If you look at the numbers and data without bias it really is difficult to determine Semenya as an outlier in athletics, and really she is in the same boat as Ayana, Dibaba, Bolt, Latiskene and others who similarly dominate. Nobody could hope to defeat Rudisha in his prime, it was impossible.
Anyway I'm not saying I don't think she has an unfair advantage. I'm just making an observation on the data. If Semenya had the same advantage over her competitors in terms of percentage as Dibaba has in the 1500m then she would run 1:53 flat.
She may do that, but then she's only on par with Dibaba. Who we all know could have gone faster in that 1500m also (horrible pacing).
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
I'll add to that that Almaz Ayana has demonstrated about the same advantage as Semenya in the 10k. It was more until Semenya's recent run.
Rudisha also demonstrated a similar advantage.
Latiskene has a much bigger advantage than Semenya and a longer win streak.
Bolt had a bigger advantage in the 100 and 200.
I'm not saying that Semenya doesn't have an unfair advantage, but in terms of actual numbers/data it's difficult to tell her apart from other athletes that dominate in their events. What does set her apart is her physical appearance.
Ha? Semenya typically doesn't try for 600m and then smashes other intersex things (Wambui & maybe Niyonsaba), Ajee "tainted steaks" Wilson, and all those doped up African, Russian & Ukrainian women over the years. The women's 800m really is a freak show.
+1
Excellent point. I think "ex-runner" must be drinking when he posting - he doesn't know what heck he's talking about half the time. He's starting to get on my nerves much like rekrunner.
rojo wrote:
What a race. What a performance. And hopefully this will prove to meet directors there is no need to have rabbit after rabbit. Unreal!!
I had her unofficially in like 26.6 for 200, 56.12 FAT at 500 and then 1:25.37.
She finally did what we've all wanted to see her do - go for it. And she did it without a rabbit.
https://twitter.com/letsrundotcom/status/1013148600107495424
What should be womens 800m is not interesting anymore. A halfman in focus.
No , I dont like it. And listen to the public after the races . Its almost silent.
ex-runner wrote:
I don't buy the feelings of letsrun posters claiming Semenya could run 1:49
You're a gay man though who doesn't like women, so your opinion isn't worth anything.
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Spinachrunner wrote:
Anyone who thinks Caster's a woman seriously needs to see a shrink
+1
What do you think makes it an excellent point? Does it get on your nerves because I say things like ""Subway Surfers Addiction" failed to address the point made by "ex-runner""?
Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Ha? Semenya typically doesn't try for 600m and then smashes other intersex things (Wambui & maybe Niyonsaba), Ajee "tainted steaks" Wilson, and all those doped up African, Russian & Ukrainian women over the years. The women's 800m really is a freak show.
+1
Excellent point. I think "ex-runner" must be drinking when he posting - he doesn't know what heck he's talking about half the time. He's starting to get on my nerves much like rekrunner.
Stupid people. wrote:
Artojas wrote:
If female runners stand idly by and do nothing about it, they deserve this humiliation. I personally wanna see that 1:49, that's entertainment.
Why don't YOU do something about it, and what does that say about you.
It's idiots like you - who have no respect for women - who cause this issue to perpetuate.
Why should I do something about? Am I competing against Caster? Are those my medals being snatched away? Is it my prize money, that I will never see?
Women want to be independent and strong, then why should they have to rely on men to fix their problems?
I am a spectator and am enjoying the show!
Also, your are an absolute moron, if you fail to understand, that giving the participating women the chance to fix their problem themselves is the ultimate sign of respect towards women. Grow up and let's talk in 10 years.
ex-runner wrote:
Artojas wrote:
Dude is dressed like a dude, married to a woman, got 1:49 in the tank. Has more testosterone than most average men. If female runners stand idly by and do nothing about it, they deserve this humiliation. I personally wanna see that 1:49, that's entertainment.
I'm interested, you watch a runner perform a 1:54 by going 56-58 and you think they can run 1:49?
I hope you aren't a coach.
Sandbagging. Look at his stride - the amplitude is a lot smaller, than it could be. Also, the dude is way overweight.
With a 400m PB of 50.40s Caster could be running 800m under 1:51. Work on getting leaner, give it all you got and voila - 1:49 high.
artojas wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
I'm interested, you watch a runner perform a 1:54 by going 56-58 and you think they can run 1:49?
I hope you aren't a coach.
Sandbagging. Look at his stride - the amplitude is a lot smaller, than it could be. Also, the dude is way overweight.
With a 400m PB of 50.40s Caster could be running 800m under 1:51. Work on getting leaner, give it all you got and voila - 1:49 high.
50.4 is not going to get Caster under 1:51. She is a speed type not an endurance type. If her 1500 was in the 3:45-3:50 range then yes 50 speed is enough for 1:51. But without that endurance it's not possible.
ex-runner wrote:
artojas wrote:
Sandbagging. Look at his stride - the amplitude is a lot smaller, than it could be. Also, the dude is way overweight.
With a 400m PB of 50.40s Caster could be running 800m under 1:51. Work on getting leaner, give it all you got and voila - 1:49 high.
50.4 is not going to get Caster under 1:51. She is a speed type not an endurance type. If her 1500 was in the 3:45-3:50 range then yes 50 speed is enough for 1:51. But without that endurance it's not possible.
It absolutely should. A very generous rule says: 50.40 x 2 + 10 = 1:50.80. Also, he IS someone, who also runs 1500m under 4min, so he has some sort of endurance. I also suspect, that Caster also trains a bit half-assed to make sandbagging look not so obvious. If he sheds that 5-10kg of unnecesary bodyfat, then trains and races hard, a dip under 1:50 is not out of question.
Now That's Telling It Like It Is wrote:
Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:
Ha? Semenya typically doesn't try for 600m and then smashes other intersex things (Wambui & maybe Niyonsaba), Ajee "tainted steaks" Wilson, and all those doped up African, Russian & Ukrainian women over the years. The women's 800m really is a freak show.
+1
Excellent point. I think "ex-runner" must be drinking when he posting - he doesn't know what heck he's talking about half the time. He's starting to get on my nerves much like rekrunner.
I mean I literally "told it like it is" but posters such as yourself don't want to hear it. Everything I stated was simply a verifiable fact. Do the research yourself.
Again, I'm not saying that Caster's advantage is not unfair. You can read that sentence and try to absorb and retain it.
However, thus far, including her latest 1:54 effort where she actually went for a fast time from the gun, she has not demonstrated an advantage in terms of percentage or win streaks over her competitors that is an outlier.
The aforementioned Bolt, Ayana, Dibaba, Latiskene, Rudisha etc. all showed a similar or even greater % advantage over their competitors in their respective events. Latiskene for example is totally unbeatable and way ahead of the rest. Their are other examples in the women's field events such as Perkovic.
Semenya cannot run 1:49 or times anywhere close to that. Any coach with an athlete who has 50.5 400m speed and 3:59 1500m ability knows that 1:54 is about the ballpark of what they can expect. Someone who goes out in 56.1 then dies to 58.1 cannot go out in 54 and come back in 55 it's preposterous.
She pushed the whole way, I actually watched the race unlike nearly everyone who has something to say about it.
Surfway Subway and yourself simply disregarded my post and tried to to boil it down to me thinking Semenya should be allowed to compete as is. I don't think that.
But how posters here can lack and even refuse such basic critical thinking skills blows my mind
artojas wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
50.4 is not going to get Caster under 1:51. She is a speed type not an endurance type. If her 1500 was in the 3:45-3:50 range then yes 50 speed is enough for 1:51. But without that endurance it's not possible.
It absolutely should. A very generous rule says: 50.40 x 2 + 10 = 1:50.80. Also, he IS someone, who also runs 1500m under 4min, so he has some sort of endurance. I also suspect, that Caster also trains a bit half-assed to make sandbagging look not so obvious. If he sheds that 5-10kg of unnecesary bodyfat, then trains and races hard, a dip under 1:50 is not out of question.
That 'generous' rule, derived from Frank Horwill, also states that therefore the athlete should be able to run 1500m in (55.4 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:46.5. Do you think Semenya can run 3:46? That rule is for 800/1500 types not 400/800. Horwill said this himself.
By the same logic WVN could run:
(43.03 + 5) x 2 = 1:36
That simply works on the idea that the faster your 400m the faster your 800m, which is false.
El Caballo couldn't get anywhere near your 5s 'generous' conversion. He ran 44.26 for 400m which you say should give him 1:38 but he ran 1:43.
It's silly logic, no 400m/800m runner can achieve those conversions.
Everyone needs to use their brains when talking about Semenya. It's easy to get distracted and make outrageous claims. But if we just watched a schoolboy run 1:54 as Semenya did, nobody would be telling him he should go out in 54s next time and run 1:50.
ex-runner wrote:
artojas wrote:
It absolutely should. A very generous rule says: 50.40 x 2 + 10 = 1:50.80. Also, he IS someone, who also runs 1500m under 4min, so he has some sort of endurance. I also suspect, that Caster also trains a bit half-assed to make sandbagging look not so obvious. If he sheds that 5-10kg of unnecesary bodyfat, then trains and races hard, a dip under 1:50 is not out of question.
That 'generous' rule, derived from Frank Horwill, also states that therefore the athlete should be able to run 1500m in (55.4 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:46.5. Do you think Semenya can run 3:46? That rule is for 800/1500 types not 400/800. Horwill said this himself.
By the same logic WVN could run:
(43.03 + 5) x 2 = 1:36
That simply works on the idea that the faster your 400m the faster your 800m, which is false.
El Caballo couldn't get anywhere near your 5s 'generous' conversion. He ran 44.26 for 400m which you say should give him 1:38 but he ran 1:43.
It's silly logic, no 400m/800m runner can achieve those conversions.
Everyone needs to use their brains when talking about Semenya. It's easy to get distracted and make outrageous claims. But if we just watched a schoolboy run 1:54 as Semenya did, nobody would be telling him he should go out in 54s next time and run 1:50.
I understand what you mean. BUT, this rule has worked for Rudisha (speed type) with his 45.15 PB over 400m. Are you then saying, that Rudisha could run 1500m in (45.15 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:08 ???
According to this calculation, Semenya is way more endurance type than Rudisha, Because it is a lot less farfetched for Semenya to run 3:46 than for Rudisha to run 3:08. So if this rule still has worked for Rudisha, then it definetely should work for Semenya. In my opinion, his efforts over 400m and 1500m are honest, but over 800m (where he makes money) definetely not.
You bringing up WVN is straight funny and requires no comment on my part, as he is 100m - 200m - 400m athlete and not 400m - 800m - 1500m athlete.
artojas wrote:
ex-runner wrote:
That 'generous' rule, derived from Frank Horwill, also states that therefore the athlete should be able to run 1500m in (55.4 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:46.5. Do you think Semenya can run 3:46? That rule is for 800/1500 types not 400/800. Horwill said this himself.
By the same logic WVN could run:
(43.03 + 5) x 2 = 1:36
That simply works on the idea that the faster your 400m the faster your 800m, which is false.
El Caballo couldn't get anywhere near your 5s 'generous' conversion. He ran 44.26 for 400m which you say should give him 1:38 but he ran 1:43.
It's silly logic, no 400m/800m runner can achieve those conversions.
Everyone needs to use their brains when talking about Semenya. It's easy to get distracted and make outrageous claims. But if we just watched a schoolboy run 1:54 as Semenya did, nobody would be telling him he should go out in 54s next time and run 1:50.
I understand what you mean. BUT, this rule has worked for Rudisha (speed type) with his 45.15 PB over 400m. Are you then saying, that Rudisha could run 1500m in (45.15 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:08 ???
According to this calculation, Semenya is way more endurance type than Rudisha, Because it is a lot less farfetched for Semenya to run 3:46 than for Rudisha to run 3:08. So if this rule still has worked for Rudisha, then it definetely should work for Semenya. In my opinion, his efforts over 400m and 1500m are honest, but over 800m (where he makes money) definetely not.
You bringing up WVN is straight funny and requires no comment on my part, as he is 100m - 200m - 400m athlete and not 400m - 800m - 1500m athlete.
Yes Semenya is not an 800/1500m athlete so it's just as ridiculous to use that formula for Semenya as it is for WVN.
I'm not saying Rudisha can run the 1500m in anything. You are using Horwill's formula incorrectly that's all I'm demonstrating. You can't use part of it and ignore the rest to try and prove Semenya can run 1:50. It's simply wrong. For her to run 1:50 with 50.4 speed the formula also says she should run the 1500m in 3:46.5. you are ignoring that part either wilfully or ignorantly.
As I mentioned Juantorena ran 44.26 and only 1:43. That's the type of athlete Semenya is. Juantorena had a 7.5s conversion. It assumes he has a 1500m in the 3:40 range which is roughly accurate. (I don't personally like Horwill's rule anyway)
Honestly just research Frank Horwill's formula and you'll understand how you are using it wrong. He states that it's not for 400/800 types and he says how it makes an assumption of 1500m ability.
Your maths about Rudisha is off btw, the formula says he should run the 1500m in 3:29. Or, in 3:26.8 if you use a theoretical 5 second conversion. Or, more likely, he could run the 400m a bit faster in peak shape but he never raced it.
Again, I don't like the formula I think it's a rough rule of thumb that only works for certain 800/1500 athletes. Semenya will NEVER approach anything like a 4/5 second conversion, that's the type of conversion Coe might have had, it's an endurance type.
ex-runner wrote:
artojas wrote:
I understand what you mean. BUT, this rule has worked for Rudisha (speed type) with his 45.15 PB over 400m. Are you then saying, that Rudisha could run 1500m in (45.15 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:08 ???
According to this calculation, Semenya is way more endurance type than Rudisha, Because it is a lot less farfetched for Semenya to run 3:46 than for Rudisha to run 3:08. So if this rule still has worked for Rudisha, then it definetely should work for Semenya. In my opinion, his efforts over 400m and 1500m are honest, but over 800m (where he makes money) definetely not.
You bringing up WVN is straight funny and requires no comment on my part, as he is 100m - 200m - 400m athlete and not 400m - 800m - 1500m athlete.
Yes Semenya is not an 800/1500m athlete so it's just as ridiculous to use that formula for Semenya as it is for WVN.
I'm not saying Rudisha can run the 1500m in anything. You are using Horwill's formula incorrectly that's all I'm demonstrating. You can't use part of it and ignore the rest to try and prove Semenya can run 1:50. It's simply wrong. For her to run 1:50 with 50.4 speed the formula also says she should run the 1500m in 3:46.5. you are ignoring that part either wilfully or ignorantly.
As I mentioned Juantorena ran 44.26 and only 1:43. That's the type of athlete Semenya is. Juantorena had a 7.5s conversion. It assumes he has a 1500m in the 3:40 range which is roughly accurate. (I don't personally like Horwill's rule anyway)
Honestly just research Frank Horwill's formula and you'll understand how you are using it wrong. He states that it's not for 400/800 types and he says how it makes an assumption of 1500m ability.
Why are you ignoring the facts? This conversion HAS WORKED for Rudisha. Why shouldn't it work for Semenya? Btw Semenya IS a competitive 1500m runner, while Rudisha is NOT, therefore Semenya DOES have more endurance than Rudisha.
The same formula says Rudisha should be able to run 1500m in 3:08, which is, of course, crazy. But for some reason his (45.15 +5) x 2 = 1:40.30 DOES almost fit his 1:40.91. So knowing, that Semenya has more endurance than Rudisha, it is even more likely, that it would pan out for him as well. Do you understand what I am saying?
I also think, that if Semenya would cut down from 73kg to maybe 65kg, his time over 800m would vastly improve. Naturally, he has no reason for it, because the goal is to look competitive, but be slightly better than women. He can run 1:52 anytime and with proper training 1:49 is very possible.
ex-runner wrote:
Your maths about Rudisha is off btw, the formula says he should run the 1500m in 3:29. Or, in 3:26.8 if you use a theoretical 5 second conversion. Or, more likely, he could run the 400m a bit faster in peak shape but he never raced it.
Again, I don't like the formula I think it's a rough rule of thumb that only works for certain 800/1500 athletes. Semenya will NEVER approach anything like a 4/5 second conversion, that's the type of conversion Coe might have had, it's an endurance type.
Ehmm... YOU gave me the formula, saying:
"That 'generous' rule, derived from Frank Horwill, also states that therefore the athlete should be able to run 1500m in (55.4 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:46.5."
So how come (45.15 + 5) x 3.75 = 3:08 is wrong?
Also, I disagree and think, that Semenya very likely can achieve the conversion for the 800m, but we will never find that out.