Good point.
Aouita's #1 does not get lost on me.
Good point.
Aouita's #1 does not get lost on me.
Sebastian Aouita wrote:
You don't think Coe could run a 5000m WR if he focused on the 5000m training after 1984?
Coe had stated in an interview in late 84 that 85 was going to be 'a quiet' and 'transitional' year, where he was going to try out the 5000m, and that he needed to take it easy after the heavy workload of getting ready for LA off a limited background in 84. In addition, he said that he'd made some promises to some big meet directors, who were also friends, like Hansen in Oslo and Brugger in Zurich, that had helped him in 84, that he would run in their meets to show his thanks for their support.
He also felt he had nothing to prove over 1500m. He ran a solo 1:44.0 in May, which was not unusual for Coe at that time of year, beat Cram over 800m in early June, then picked up an injury which kept him from training for almost a month at a crucial stage. He also had a return of a back problem which he'd had in 1980, and which was a constant for the rest of the 85 season. He actually pulled out of a couple of late season races as he was warming up. When he faced Cram in Oslo, he was far from his best. As a result of the injuries and the back problem, it limited his ability to do the extra mileage training he required in order to run some 3000 and 5000m later in the season. The plan was scratched, and without the track performances at those distance to reassure him that he was on target to run a decent 5k, and knowing that he would be going into the winter with 2 major Champs looming the following summer (86), I think he decided to play safe and stick with the events he'd excelled at. I think Cram's stunning 85 season and the fact Coe didn't win the 800 in LA, were also contributing factors that made him want to stick with the 8 & 15.
Having run a 3:29 and finally won a major Championship 800 (beating Cram over 800 and running faster over 1500 that year), he felt he could walk away from the 2 events and focus on the 5000m in 87 (although still race over 1500). So in the winter of 86/87, he adapted his training with an aim of running some 5000m in 87. He had his normal debut in May for his club in a League match, running 1:46 and a 46.8 relay leg, before getting injured and not running again for the rest of the season. At the end of 87, as the winter approached, he decided to aim for a 3rd Olympic 1500 title rather than move up to 5000m.
So, fate determined he wasn't to have a serious effort at running some 3000 and 5000m in his later career. I've also heard that he didn't enjoy the extra distance, so maybe the decision to stick with the 8 and 15 was an easy one for him to make!?
If Coe had not got the injuries in 85 and been able to choose a few events at 3 and 5k, in order to try how the training changes were going, I think he could have run 7:35 - 7:40 for 3000m and 13:10 - 13:15 for 5000m; which would have been world class at the time, but probably not good enough to beat the likes of Aouita. At this point, if he felt there was room for improvement with another winter to train, I think he would have continued with 5000m, but he could equally have decided that he couldn't improve much on that and therefore there would be no point continuing at the distance if he felt he couldn't win gold and be the best. He would then have returned back to the 8 and 15 in 86.
Originally, back in 81, Coe stated that he wanted to win 800m golds in the 82 European and then the 8 & 15 in the first World Champs in 83, before moving up to the 5000m. Had things gone to plan then maybe he had the potential to eventually get close to the world records for 3000m and 5000m, But in reality, with the difficulties he had in 82 & 83, and then the struggle to get ready for the 84 Games, I think he had probably missed the boat.
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
Of course Aouita would win. That's why he figures on Peter Coe's book cover instead of Sebastian. They knew it and paid homage.
Faultless logic.
Actually, maybe it's because Aouita openly admitted he hero worshipped Coe and copied his training to the letter? At the time the book was published it also wasn't known that Aouita was likely a doper.
Coevett wrote:
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
Of course Aouita would win. That's why he figures on Peter Coe's book cover instead of Sebastian. They knew it and paid homage.
Faultless logic.
Actually, maybe it's because Aouita openly admitted he hero worshipped Coe and copied his training to the letter? At the time the book was published it also wasn't known that Aouita was likely a doper.
Did Morcelli also worship Coe?
https://i.gr-assets.com/images/S/compressed.photo.goodreads.com/books/1328705057i/1297250._UY450_SS450_.jpgCoevett wrote:
Aouita openly admitted he hero worshipped Coe and copied his training to the letter?
You have been so "creative" lately... Would you mind showing us evidence oi that?
Not saying it's not true, but you have told so many blatant lies lately that I don't think you can be trusted with the info you provide.
Thanks.
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
you have told so many blatant lies lately that I don't think you can be trusted
100%!
Any, really any info which we get from this stranger has to be checked. Usual result: the info presented (if not an open point with not an clear answer) is just plain wrong (surprisingly always in some way to support his "theories"...). There are many examples for that. What is the benefit of such discussions, when some not even have the interest to list the "facts" correct?
I don't see the relevance of which athlete appeared on the cover of a book to this discussion?
Peter Coe was a contributor or co writer on many publications, some of which had his son on the cover. To be honest, it would be rather sycophantic to have Seb on the cover of all his books. In any case, the particular one you reference was entitled 'Better Training for Distance Runners' and Coe was not a distance runner, but a pure middle distance runner. Aouita on the other hand was an all round middle and distance runner, so his profile is a better match for the title of the publication. It was also published in 97, a long time after Coe junior had retired, but not so long after Aouita had.
Deanouk wrote:
In any case, the particular one you reference was entitled 'Better Training for Distance Runners' and Coe was not a distance runner, but a pure middle distance runner.
I have the book, thank you very much, and I have read it all more than once.
Coe was a distance runner.
Or are you going to say he was a sprinter? Middle-distance, long-distance. See the word "distance"?
Coe was a distance runner.
Part of running a world class 3000m and 5000m is being able to handle the workload and racing of world-class 3000m/5000m training. Seb Coe obviously could not sustain that. Sure, he could handle 5000m pace work in his father's speed tier system, but those were only temporary base periods before he would drop down into his now famous 800m/1500m preparations.
Simply put - Coe could not handle the physical, and perhaps mental, stress and workload of world class 5000m running, thus Coe retires with a 14:06 and 7:54 personal best. Much slower than many NCAA runners.
The fact is that the 5000m was a poor relation to the the 800 and 1500 back then. Even Aouita stated (when asked why he wasn't racing Cram in the 1987 Rome 1500 World Championships) that he much preferred the 1500 but 'he had a better chance to win in the 5000'.
The 5000 at major championships was almost like the middle-distance B race back then. It's quite fitting that Aouita, who had spent the first half of his career grinding away in the 800 and 1500m European B races, finally had the courage to drop back down tor those events in 88 when it finally appeared Coe and Ovett had gone (and even Cram burnt out).
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
In any case, the particular one you reference was entitled 'Better Training for Distance Runners' and Coe was not a distance runner, but a pure middle distance runner.
I have the book, thank you very much, and I have read it all more than once.
Coe was a distance runner.
Or are you going to say he was a sprinter? Middle-distance, long-distance. See the word "distance"?
Coe was a distance runner.
I also have the book and it covers training for 800m up to the Marathon.
'Distance' is a general term, but certainly an 800m runner would not class themselves as a distance runner!
5000m and 10 k runners are distance runners, 800m and milers are 'middle-distance'; see the word 'distance' appears in 'middle-distance' but it is a specific sub section.
Aouita, as Olympic & World Champion over 5000m and WR holder over 3000m and 2000m, achieved most of his success in a distance event, but also broke the WR in a middle distance event, thus he would be a better candidate on the front of a book with the title of "Better Training for Distance Runners", whereas Coe or Cram would be better subjects on the front of a book entitled, "Better Training for Middle Distance Runners" or "Better Training for 800 and 1500m Runners".
Simple really.
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
In any case, the particular one you reference was entitled 'Better Training for Distance Runners' and Coe was not a distance runner, but a pure middle distance runner.
I have the book, thank you very much, and I have read it all more than once.
Coe was a distance runner.
Or are you going to say he was a sprinter? Middle-distance, long-distance. See the word "distance"?
Coe was a distance runner.
I doubt very much Peter Coe even had any say in who appeared on the cover. He was also one of three writers for that book.
There's no doubt that if Aouita was clean (as it appears the Coes and many others think, or at least certainly did back then) that his training methods were perhaps the most effective in the history of track. He went from a regular b class runner with times that many high school boys can match, to threatening world records in the space of a year, when he was at least 23. Why not have Aouita on the cover of a book about distance running methods?
I remember watching the BBC sports presenter Steve Ryder introducing a race by Aouita in (I think) 89 showering praise on him and describing him as 'undoubtedly the greatest middle-distance runner in history'.
I don't know if it was connected to that or simply the selection farce in 88, but in Seb's next UK race the cameras zoomed in on Peter Coe holding up a placard (like a protester) with the words something like 'Seb Coe - the greatest middle-distance runner in history'.
Anyway, you're wrong - Peter Coe definitely thought his son was better than Aouita.
Deanouk wrote:
5000m and 10 k runners are distance runners, 800m and milers are 'middle-distance'; see the word 'distance' appears in 'middle-distance' but it is a specific sub section.
You forgot the word "long".
Coevett wrote:
Anyway, you're wrong - Peter Coe definitely thought his son was better than Aouita.
Again, not saying you're wrong but where's evidence supporting that?
Coevett wrote:
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
I have the book, thank you very much, and I have read it all more than once.
Coe was a distance runner.
Or are you going to say he was a sprinter? Middle-distance, long-distance. See the word "distance"?
Coe was a distance runner.
I doubt very much Peter Coe even had any say in who appeared on the cover. He was also one of three writers for that book.
There's no doubt that if Aouita was clean (as it appears the Coes and many others think, or at least certainly did back then) that his training methods were perhaps the most effective in the history of track. He went from a regular b class runner with times that many high school boys can match, to threatening world records in the space of a year, when he was at least 23. Why not have Aouita on the cover of a book about distance running methods?
I remember watching the BBC sports presenter Steve Ryder introducing a race by Aouita in (I think) 89 showering praise on him and describing him as 'undoubtedly the greatest middle-distance runner in history'.
I don't know if it was connected to that or simply the selection farce in 88, but in Seb's next UK race the cameras zoomed in on Peter Coe holding up a placard (like a protester) with the words something like 'Seb Coe - the greatest middle-distance runner in history'.
Anyway, you're wrong - Peter Coe definitely thought his son was better than Aouita.
The opening line, "Said Aouita is probably the greatest runner in the history of athletics."
Big call.
Deanouk wrote:
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
I have the book, thank you very much, and I have read it all more than once.
Coe was a distance runner.
Or are you going to say he was a sprinter? Middle-distance, long-distance. See the word "distance"?
Coe was a distance runner.
I also have the book and it covers training for 800m up to the Marathon.
'Distance' is a general term, but certainly an 800m runner would not class themselves as a distance runner!
5000m and 10 k runners are distance runners, 800m and milers are 'middle-distance'; see the word 'distance' appears in 'middle-distance' but it is a specific sub section.
Aouita, as Olympic & World Champion over 5000m and WR holder over 3000m and 2000m, achieved most of his success in a distance event, but also broke the WR in a middle distance event, thus he would be a better candidate on the front of a book with the title of "Better Training for Distance Runners", whereas Coe or Cram would be better subjects on the front of a book entitled, "Better Training for Middle Distance Runners" or "Better Training for 800 and 1500m Runners".
Simple really.
Do you see, in bold, your contradiction?
Mamede wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXjbxrmHpuY&t=245sThe opening line, "Said Aouita is probably the greatest runner in the history of athletics."
Big call.
Aouita at home looks like the drug dealer from Crocodile Dundee 2
Aouuuiiitaaa wrote:
Deanouk wrote:
I also have the book and it covers training for 800m up to the Marathon.
'Distance' is a general term, but certainly an 800m runner would not class themselves as a distance runner!
5000m and 10 k runners are distance runners, 800m and milers are 'middle-distance'; see the word 'distance' appears in 'middle-distance' but it is a specific sub section.
Aouita, as Olympic & World Champion over 5000m and WR holder over 3000m and 2000m, achieved most of his success in a distance event, but also broke the WR in a middle distance event, thus he would be a better candidate on the front of a book with the title of "Better Training for Distance Runners", whereas Coe or Cram would be better subjects on the front of a book entitled, "Better Training for Middle Distance Runners" or "Better Training for 800 and 1500m Runners".
Simple really.
Do you see, in bold, your contradiction?
No, it is not my contradiction, but the contradiction of the book's title. 800 - mile = middle distance; 3000 - marathon = long distance.
Ask any 800m runner if they see themselves as a 'distance' runner and they will give you a baffled look.
If I chose to write a book entitled, "...Distance running" it would cover 3000m to the marathon. It was the writers of that book who chose to include training for 800 and 1500m runners.
Deanouk wrote:
No, it is not my contradiction, but the contradiction of the book's title. 800 - mile = middle distance; 3000 - marathon = long distance.
Ask any 800m runner if they see themselves as a 'distance' runner and they will give you a baffled look.
If I chose to write a book entitled, "...Distance running" it would cover 3000m to the marathon. It was the writers of that book who chose to include training for 800 and 1500m runners.
Thank you for the explanation.
I guess that's a matter of opinion then.
sprinting - in any moment during the race you try to (almost) run as fast as possible (60m - 400m)
distance running - you always have to save some energy in order to finish (800m and longer)
Sprinters start from blocks, distance runners not.
Sprinters run in lanes, distance runners not.
Sprinters always run "their own race", distance runners react to the acting of the competitors - yes, that's on both sides not 100% true.
For me 800m always was distance running.
800m - 1 Mile: middle distance running.
3000m - 10000m: long distance running.
Where belongs 2000m?
There is not an ultimative answer, since there doesn't exist (as far as I know) something like an official definition. But that's my understanding.
