Moen. 2:05. Wins Fukuoka. How??

This>> wrote:

yyy wrote:

You are not going to receive a sensible response. He will just claim that EPO doesn't work for athletes who live and train at altitude. Only the weak use dope.

This ^^ so why bother with testing and blood values since EPO doesn't work anyway ?

this ^^ once everyone starts thinking EPO and PEDs dont work, times will drop again and running will be like WWE productions. this idea that only the weak minded take PEDs and its pointless to take since they dont work anyways will cause the WADA and other sites to become nothing more than fronts. 2-3 yrs someone will break bolts records, and they will be clean.....clean as the media wants them to be

Mindweak, the fact I say EPO doesn't work for athletes always training in altitude, at the max level of volume and intensity, doesn't mean WADA can't continue to do the tests.

I want they do the tests, maybe more than before, and that anybody so idiot to take EPO has to be banned for life, not for 4 years only.

But, at the same time, I SAY THEY HAVE TO BE BANNED BECAUSE ARE SO STUPID TO USE MONEY PAYING DOCTORS AND DRUG NOT FOR HAVING REAL ADVANTAGES, BUT ONLY FOR TRY SOME SHORTCUT IN ORDER TO ARRIVE TO THE SAME RESULTS THEY CAN ACHIEVE TRAINING IN RIGHT AND CLEAN WAY.

And, if people are able to understand this, INSTEAD THINKING TAKING EPO CAN GIVE BIG ADVANTAGES, we can reduce dramatically the use of EPO from all people who well know they never can be tested in the future : amateurs, weak athletes, schoolboys and in general people using EPO for feeling themselves stronger with little training.

I want hard antidoping tests, but I don't want that the effects of doping on the performances can be overrated, creating limits in the minds of the athletes, and continue suspicions in the mind of spectators. And I can't accept the idea that in some Country the investment in money by some Government is higher for antidoping than for promoting the activity.

all i got from this is, blah blah blah YELLING AND MORE YELLING and more blah blah blah

dude you dont have to yell at me, im on your side EPO doesnt work, its nothing but snake oil from shady fake doctors trying to make a fast buck.....

basic intrinsic

Hi Renato, I think you got a little bit distracted from the actual question - are you able to answer my previous question re: the doping tests and the blood values? It'd be very interesting to know.

Probably, if I was the coach of Eliud, I'd change very little from the training he always uses, thinking of an athlete who had 11 years of continue activity on track at top level. Maybe I could have the idea to ask him some long run faster than what he normally does, maybe not : for deciding, you need to be always with the athlete, analyzing his situation, and deciding what he needs, every time.

Thanks coach Canova for this beautiful words! This was the question that I had in my mind , since I saw

those 5 weeks of training of Eliud Kipchoge before Berlin 2017. I was wonderin how those two week

cycle with : track - 30k- fartlek track - 40k - fartlek repeated over and over are quite different

from your system of training . But this shows also the beauty of coaching there are so many different

ways to reach our goals and especially different training for different individuals , especially I think

not only by a phisiological point of view but also from a psychological point of view of the athlete.

m!ndweak wrote:

all i got from this is, blah blah blah YELLING AND MORE YELLING and more blah blah blah

dude you dont have to yell at me, im on your side EPO doesnt work, its nothing but snake oil from shady fake doctors trying to make a fast buck.....

basic intrinsic

Tyler Hamilton, "Around 2001 we got away from the red eggs [Andriol gelcaps containing orally-active testosterone undecanoate] and started using testosterone patches, which were more convenient. They were like big Band-Aids with a clear gel in the center; you could leave one on for a couple of hours, get a boost of testosterone, and by morning be clean as a newborn baby.”

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

m!ndweak wrote:

all i got from this is, blah blah blah YELLING AND MORE YELLING and more blah blah blah

dude you dont have to yell at me, im on your side EPO doesnt work, its nothing but snake oil from shady fake doctors trying to make a fast buck.....

basic intrinsic

Tyler Hamilton, "Around 2001 we got away from the red eggs [Andriol gelcaps containing orally-active testosterone undecanoate] and started using testosterone patches, which were more convenient. They were like big Band-Aids with a clear gel in the center; you could leave one on for a couple of hours, get a boost of testosterone, and by morning be clean as a newborn baby.”

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/tyler-hamiltons-guide-anabolic-steroids-epo-cycling/

Instead of injecting 2,000 units of Edgar [EPO] every third or fourth night, we injected 400 or 500 units every night. Glowtime minimized; problem solved. We called it microdosing.”

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Subway Surfers Addiction wrote:

Tyler Hamilton, "Around 2001 we got away from the red eggs [Andriol gelcaps containing orally-active testosterone undecanoate] and started using testosterone patches, which were more convenient. They were like big Band-Aids with a clear gel in the center; you could leave one on for a couple of hours, get a boost of testosterone, and by morning be clean as a newborn baby.”

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/tyler-hamiltons-guide-anabolic-steroids-epo-cycling/

Instead of injecting 2,000 units of Edgar [EPO] every third or fourth night, we injected 400 or 500 units every night. Glowtime minimized; problem solved. We called it microdosing.”

"Hamilton provides a few more interesting tips on how to thwart WADA drug testers in the book. He doesn’t go really explain how to circumvent the the “biological passport” system other than to suggest cyclists are using smaller blood bags during transfusion. I guess this can be called a sort of “micro-infusion”.

"Ferrari advised Lance to sleep in an altitude tent and to microdose Edgar [code name for EPO - ed.] in the vein, 800 units a night. This would help keep his haematocrit high and also beat the new EPO test. The altitude tent would create more natural EPO, helping to balance out any synthetic EPO that might linger ... his plan with Ferrari had worked out perfectly."

Man these guys are morons, using something that doesn't work.

m!ndweak wrote:

This>> wrote:

This ^^ so why bother with testing and blood values since EPO doesn't work anyway ?

this ^^ once everyone starts thinking EPO and PEDs dont work, times will drop again and running will be like WWE productions. this idea that only the weak minded take PEDs and its pointless to take since they dont work anyways will cause the WADA and other sites to become nothing more than fronts. 2-3 yrs someone will break bolts records, and they will be clean.....clean as the media wants them to be

"So it was not a massive surprise to learn that Hamilton had injected a bag of blood the night before the stage to Bayonne, increasing his performance by 3%, or so he writes in his account of his doping journey, The Secret Race: Inside the Hidden World of the Tour de France: Doping, Cover-ups and Winning at All Costs."

These guys are morons, why are doing this? It doesn't work.

Subway Surfer - don't confuse the Tour de France with the marathon.

Tyler Hamilton told us he thought that clean athletes could win one day events against athletes taking EPO.

Read that in the last year, Moen has been testet around 8 times outside of competition, and he has been tested regularly since 2008.

Are high blood values are a significant factor for best marathon performances? When the IAAF blood values were leaked, the Sunday Times published some interesting statistics regarding "suspicious" blood values, by event. They found that in the marathon (both men and women combined), 11% of World Championship and Olympic medal winners, had, at at least one point in their career (not necessarily at the event of the World Championship or the Olympics), a recorded suspicious blood value in the database. Stated another way, out of all the athletes and samples in the leaked database of a rather large set of blood athlete values, 8 out of 9 World Championship and Olympic marathon medalists, lacked a suspicious blood value in the database, not just at the World Championship, or the Olympics, but for all of their blood values that appeared in the database. What about the role of testing? In the 1990's, no test existed for anyone for EPO. Everyone could take EPO without detection. Yet, in the marathon, Dinsamo's marathon world record stood unchallenged through the height of the EPO era, for a decade, until 1998, when it was bettered by Da Costa, then again by Khannouchi, in 1999, approximately 1 minute faster than Dinsamo in 1988, or at a rate of about 1 minute over 10 years. Then, once a test was developed in 2000, the marathon record started dropping at double this rate, about 1 minute in 2003, when Paul Tergat set the record, then again by about 1 more minute by 2008, when Geb set the record a second time, all while new generations of EPO tests became available. Once the ABP came online, in six more years the world record dropped again by about 1 more minute, eventually set by Kimetto in 2014. So when no testing existed for the whole world, the marathon record was stagnate for nearly a decade during the peak of the EPO era. Once testing was introduced, and subsequently improved, the rate in the drop in marathon times doubled compared to the period of no testing, and this doubled rate continued for 3 five year cycles spanning 15 years.

DHT123 wrote:

Hi Renato, I think you got a little bit distracted from the actual question - are you able to answer my previous question re: the doping tests and the blood values? It'd be very interesting to know.

The marathon record was extremely weak compared to the track records. A 28 flat guy should be able to run 2:07 with proper training assuming that he is a 10000m/marathoner. You raise an interesting point though.

gjugh wrote:

Read that in the last year, Moen has been testet around 8 times outside of competition, and he has been tested regularly since 2008.

He says in this article (in norwegian) that he has been tested 5 or 6 times during the last year.

I think 'suspicious' was defined in the ST by values over an absolute level (i.e. Shobukhova's values, and one of Paula's values( as opposed to values being flagged up as 'suspicious' in the ABP. The more recent leak from Fancy Bears of athletes which showed a whole ton of athletes under the heading 'Likely Doping' or 'Passport Suspicious' means that this initial statistic is way out of date.

norwegiann wrote:

gjugh wrote:

Read that in the last year, Moen has been testet around 8 times outside of competition, and he has been tested regularly since 2008.

https://www.dagbladet.no/sport/sa-mye-har-maratonhelten-blitt-testet-det-siste-aret---forstar-at-folk-tviler/69066504

He says in this article (in norwegian) that he has been tested 5 or 6 times during the last year.

That's great. Then there would be 5 or 6 test results to release to the sceptical public to put their minds at rest. Are these available, plus blood values from the last year?

Interestingly, for example, Johaug wasn't tested for 4 months of the off-season before she tested positive, so one wonders where and when Moen was tested during this year

And the testing in Kenya is, well,.......patchy

.

Was Moen given notice the night before about a test? Again, it's quite easy to make this information public to stop people's scepticism. It's in the athlete's interests, surely, to do this?

not just morons but basic intrinsic morans!!!

snake oil, smoke and mirroros....tyler was just mindweak and trying to make money for the pharmaceutical companies, cause EVERYONE knows that EPO and PEDs dont work. Ben Johnson is correct he was setup, cause PEDs dont work.

lance was doing something dirty and it wasnt PEDs cause they dont work. maybe embezzling money through live strong, so people wanted him to go down....what more of a perfect way to take down an icon than through doping allegations? BOOOOOM lance goes down! he never tested positive, cause he never took PEDs. he never took PEDs cause being a smart guy he knew they dont work, and he wasnt mindweak, instead he was super MINDSTRONG!

thanks to guys like Renato and rekrunner, us lowly morans on LR can stop this rant of stupidity....EPO doesnt work, PEDs dont work, only morans and idiawts take things that dont work!

basic intrinsic 3'24....out

"Suspicious" was defined by the two Australian anti-doping experts doing the expert analysis not too long ago in 2015 -- so I don't know so much about "way out of date". They used an HR-off score against a sea-level threshold, which is a metric based on hemoglobin and reticulytes. Falling below suspicion indicates that hemoglobin values are not unusually high, something you would expect would be the "doping goal", or "altitude training goal" for an important competition. And yet marathon medals were won 8 out of 9 times, without excessive hemoglobin and reticulyte parameters leading to suspicious off-scores (for every sample in the database at anytime in that athletes career). Most of those years, blood didn't count, so you wouldn't expect anyone to be gaming the system against thresholds which didn't yet exist. By comparison, for the "way out of date statistics", the 1500m and race-walking medal winners were around 50%. Whatever models were used in the Fancy Bears leak doesn't change the observation that excessive blood values on WCh and Olympic marathon podiums are the exception, rather than the rule, by far.

DHT123 wrote:

I think 'suspicious' was defined in the ST by values over an absolute level (i.e. Shobukhova's values, and one of Paula's values( as opposed to values being flagged up as 'suspicious' in the ABP. The more recent leak from Fancy Bears of athletes which showed a whole ton of athletes under the heading 'Likely Doping' or 'Passport Suspicious' means that this initial statistic is way out of date.