This is what will happen. You remove specific structure from the criteria, and add the component of arbitrary decision making . Also., make the appeals process long and costly. Like the person making the CIS example above, the people on the committee honestly believe they are correct in making decisions that do not follow the criteria they have developed.
I guess these are the games the few paid coaches in Canada have to play to protect their jobs and squash volunteer club coaches from having a chance to take it from them.
It was suggested on another site , minutes of the meeting discussing the selections would be forward . They never were. 100% , that if minutes were taken , they do not exist now, and all in the meeting would collude that it would be in the best interest not to keep them or make them public.
SNET wrote:
It was suggested on another site , minutes of the meeting discussing the selections would be forward . They never were. 100% , that if minutes were taken , they do not exist now, and all in the meeting would collude that it would be in the best interest not to keep them or make them public.
It's been posted several times that everyone on the committee was on the same page regarding these transgressions; this was NOT the case. The AO Quest for Gold committee was not unanimous in their votes to ignore the selection criteria in forming their nominations.
Athletics Ontario staff agreed to send minutes of the meeting and details of exemptions and then reneged.
"You really should have asked more questions about the Q for G stuff before commenting. If you had seen the raw scoring data, you would have known that these SR athletes MUST have actually have been awarded points for things they did not do (like run the event they were applying for at AOs and/or Nats)."
The criteria states Ontario Championships and National Championships. It doesn't say AOs. It's reasonable to interpret the criteria to mean OUA and CIS Championships are included. Surely we aren't excluding our provincial and national university X champs from consideration. If this is the case there needs to be separate Cross Country Carding. Why not? Cross Country Skiing has it's own carding. Then again this would lead to even more SR athletes getting carded. Nothing wrong with that as they seem to be proven multi-year winners who have earned some support.
Not adding up wrote:
"You really should have asked more questions about the Q for G stuff before commenting. If you had seen the raw scoring data, you would have known that these SR athletes MUST have actually have been awarded points for things they did not do (like run the event they were applying for at AOs and/or Nats)."
The criteria states Ontario Championships and National Championships. It doesn't say AOs. It's reasonable to interpret the criteria to mean OUA and CIS Championships are included. Surely we aren't excluding our provincial and national university X champs from consideration. If this is the case there needs to be separate Cross Country Carding. Why not? Cross Country Skiing has it's own carding. Then again this would lead to even more SR athletes getting carded. Nothing wrong with that as they seem to be proven multi-year winners who have earned some support.
This is not funny.
Speed River are proven multi-year cheaters.
Not adding up wrote:
The criteria states Ontario Championships and National Championships. It doesn't say AOs. It's reasonable to interpret the criteria to mean OUA and CIS Championships are included. Surely we aren't excluding our provincial and national university X champs from consideration.
Please identify where OUA/CIS has any documented relationship with AO/AC such that those championships could potentially be considered provincial or national championships.
When people wonder why track and cross country have been passed by in terms of popularity and support look no further than this thread. Typical petty arguments about who deserves funding and who doesn't. Even arguing about what is and isn't considered a provincial and national championship LOL. "Our national championships are better than yours". "We don't recognize your championships".
On another note does Equestrian Ontario give cards to horses? After all the horse is really the athlete in equestrian competitions, and horses get national awards for excellence.
POTD candidate
I wonder why Jeremy Rae isn't posting in this thread anymore? He seemed interested in discussing this topic, but then poof he disappears.
where is Jeremy Rae? wrote:
I wonder why Jeremy Rae isn't posting in this thread anymore? He seemed interested in discussing this topic, but then poof he disappears.
That's pretty much what Ross Proudfoot did on the Trackie thread. He posted a bit, avoided getting into any specific details because he knew better than to try and defend their actions, and then disappeared.
It's a safe bet that the Speed River coaches have told their athletes to keep their mouths shut and just hope that this all goes away.
I still cannot believe these athletes would do something so petty and small as cheating on provincial carding. I guess that's what you learn when you go to Guelph, to do whatever it takes to get your way.
par for the course wrote:
where is Jeremy Rae? wrote:I wonder why Jeremy Rae isn't posting in this thread anymore? He seemed interested in discussing this topic, but then poof he disappears.
That's pretty much what Ross Proudfoot did on the Trackie thread. He posted a bit, avoided getting into any specific details because he knew better than to try and defend their actions, and then disappeared.
It's a safe bet that the Speed River coaches have told their athletes to keep their mouths shut and just hope that this all goes away.
I still cannot believe these athletes would do something so petty and small as cheating on provincial carding. I guess that's what you learn when you go to Guelph, to do whatever it takes to get your way.
The big picture for Shoe companies looking to sponsor athletes. Now Proudfoot and Rae look dishonest. Not a good handle to have , whether this is true or not.
Not adding up wrote:
When people wonder why track and cross country have been passed by in terms of popularity and support look no further than this thread. Typical petty arguments about who deserves funding and who doesn't. Even arguing about what is and isn't considered a provincial and national championship LOL. "Our national championships are better than yours". "We don't recognize your championships".
If you genuinely don't understand why there is no connection between AO and OUA, then we're at an impasse.
There is also already a funding mechanism in place for those who do well at OUs or CIs. Check with your university athletic department.
One of the mandates of AO or AC is to drive their championships, hence why they give points for those events.
AO or AC don't have any real direct benefit from OUs or CIs.
Athletics Ontario is not getting a GD dime from my family in 2016
we don't need them
screw you AO
upsetparent wrote:
Athletics Ontario is not getting a GD dime from my family in 2016
we don't need them
screw you AO
If you and your family are only involved in the high school/university scene, then yeah, you could probably do just fine ignoring all things AO, especially if you've got a good school team/coach that runs a program beyond the varsity season (and doesn't expect you to be a AO club member). Any summer meets you want to compete at will likely require an extra entry fee to cover the insurance normally provided by AO to AO members competing at AO meets, but sounds like that's not an issue for you.
But it seems a little disjointed to be wanting to boycott AO because a small committee appears to have made some biased decision making in awarding carding money (which comes from the ministry and not AO itself) to a handful of athletes instead of a different handful of athletes.
Unless it is you or your family who are one of the affected athletes in which case you apparently aren't going to give a GD dime to AO because AO didn't give a GD dime to you/your family.
Of course, not having anything to do with AO means you/your family will not be competing at AO or AC championship meets and therefore won't be getting any of the presumably needed points to be eligible for Q4G carding, so you certainly won't be getting a GD dime from AO (or more accurately, through AO) next year either.
stupid threads wrote:
Save yourself wrote:J-Rae hasn't been with the river for too long - he should get out before Moulton and DST fully corrupt him.
This thread is getting silly Moulton and DST aren't that bad. They've had lots of good runners in their program and they do things in the community and it's not fair for you guys to point out they had some advantages from athletics canada or AO.
I think other athletes are just jealous because they train hard but find out training hard isn't enough and not every coach is wiling to push the rules to help their athletes. Well go and cry about it but Speed river is willing to do everything they can for their athletes. People can file their appeals and if speed river gets caught then applause for you, that's why they have appeals. In the meantime they have every right to try anything Moulton and DST think can help their athletes.
So don't go whining about rules and playing fair. People say oh you can't give the championship meets to guelph because other clubs had better bids, well who cares about who has the best bid thats so stupid. I feel like I'm banging a wall with my head reading these kinds of threads over and over. Go race in London fine we'll go to better meets because we're faster. If you want to be the best then try harder and be more like Guelph. But you can't so go blog and wonder what it's like to have athletes make national teams. And don't post things that Reid says that's not fair, it's his money and he's not the kind of guy that cheats. So much hate.
Speed River reminds me of another Canadian group that decided training hard wasn't enough.
feck off AO and AC we don't need them in order the run fast.
you need them I think but not I
upsetparent wrote:
feck off AO and AC we don't need them in order the run fast.
you need them I think but not I
Again, depends on your goals.
If you aren't looking for carding or making national teams, then you're probably right, aside from some minor hassles with some meet entries.
Enjoy your fast running!
SNET wrote:
par for the course wrote:That's pretty much what Ross Proudfoot did on the Trackie thread. He posted a bit, avoided getting into any specific details because he knew better than to try and defend their actions, and then disappeared.
It's a safe bet that the Speed River coaches have told their athletes to keep their mouths shut and just hope that this all goes away.
I still cannot believe these athletes would do something so petty and small as cheating on provincial carding. I guess that's what you learn when you go to Guelph, to do whatever it takes to get your way.
The big picture for Shoe companies looking to sponsor athletes. Now Proudfoot and Rae look dishonest. Not a good handle to have , whether this is true or not.
Rae could have done a much better job, but the main people looking bad for potential sponsors are coaches Chris Moulton and Dave Scott-Thomas, and athletes Katrina Allison, Aaron Hendrikx, and Ross Proudfoot.
As an athlete I would never want to be involved in something shady like this, even if it meant disagreeing with my coach. Integrity should come first.
stay well clear wrote:
SNET wrote:The big picture for Shoe companies looking to sponsor athletes. Now Proudfoot and Rae look dishonest. Not a good handle to have , whether this is true or not.
Rae could have done a much better job, but the main people looking bad for potential sponsors are coaches Chris Moulton and Dave Scott-Thomas, and athletes Katrina Allison, Aaron Hendrikx, and Ross Proudfoot.
As an athlete I would never want to be involved in something shady like this, even if it meant disagreeing with my coach. Integrity should come first.
From the Trackie thread, it sounds like the Cheat River athletes and coach lied in their appeal to the government, and got funding as a result of their lies.
Lies + more lies = Cheat River
Reminds me of how they appealed at the oua 3k to have their athletes reinstated from DQ and have other teams guys DQed. Pretty sick that they appeal and try to cheat the system further when they're already in the wrong to begin with. What Boyd and the upstanders need to realize, is that SR does not give a F. They will continue to cheat, no matter how unethical and bad they look, no matter how many times they're called out or appealed against, they don't care what anyone outside of their Guelph bubble thinks. They probably think it's funny that the system is so easy to manipulate. AC is a joke of an organization whom is solely driven by money. Speed River is aware of this and exploits them accordingly.