Solomon suddenly world class and Rupp soloing 3.50 indoor miles - Come on Letsun, ask the questions!

It's sad letsrun doent have the balls and goes around the issue like this. They know god damn good and well Rupp and the whole salazar crew is dirty including MO and how he is being investigated for adrenaline at the games. They are more than willing to pry for info but do nothing when they get it.

just wait, it may not be this year or even 5yrs but its gonna come out. This one is much harder to take down than Lance since you have to take down Nike. Yes, its happening inside Nike walls in the "kitchen" and blood samples are being sent out. Why would rupp fly back to portland from boston during flu season for 36hrs? Training, doubtful. The effects of a good effort would largely be lost by flying 12hrs.

Canada Coach wrote:

Lydiard is God wrote:

I would like to take issue with the oft-repeated and completely erroneous assertion that Lydiard neglected pure speed. In fact, he advocated training like sprinters using very short, sharp bursts with complete rest between reps,to get your legs turning over as fast as possible. You can do this all year as it is alactic.

Modern Lydiardists also acknowledge the excellent advice to lift heavy. And what are his famous hill bounding workouts but plyometrics. Furthermore, he paid attention to technique. He got a top sprint coach to work on Peter Snell's form even after he won 800m gold in 1960.

Go check out Keith Livingstone's Healthy Intelligent Training book. It's all in there. He ran with Lydiard's guys in the sixties.

Lydiard did like speed, but not all year around. This is what Salazar has improved upon

Not exactly. He objected to anaerobic workouts during the base phase. Traditonal intervals are encouraged, but keep them largely within the aerobic zone. A pure speed short sprint (eg,10x30-40m with full rest) workout, on the other hand, is alactic, and can be done all year.

Actually, 10x30-40m with full rest is the most anaerobic workout a runner can do.

Questioning results is not a one way street. It's more analogous to playing a game of chess, either with yourself or this message board, i.e., great result could be PED's, could be improved training/diet, could be a gray area of asthma/thyroid meds, could be staying healthy, etc., etc. At the end of the day some will win and some will lose but very few rises to the level of 'slanderous' and even fewer could be construed as 'accusations'.

By your statement, “Until you have actual proof, STFU and stop thinking that every time someone gets to a certain level it is time to start "asking the hard questions" (translated: Accusing athletes of cheating)...” you are suggesting that we don’t play the game at all. In a parallel universe where there was no prior knowledge this would be great advice but, in our world, the litany of PED induced results over the past several decades require that we play.

That being said I do think that if Wejo is right and Nike is the running equivalent of the Yankees then the Brojos are most definitely the Red Sox. They are the pied pipers of the Red Sox Running nation where many of their followers eagerly join the fray. Why we question Rupp ad naseum (justifiably so I might add) about his thyroid meds but somehow give Hall a pass is evidence of the Us versus Them environment around here. Another failed litmus test is the sheer number of anti-Nike types around here and of the few pro-Nike types all we have is the maniacal A Duck.

Is it good for the sport that the only legitimate website devoted to competitive distance running favors one side? Probably not. We either need another partial website or the Brojos should attempt to be more impartial.

basic physiology wrote:

Actually, 10x30-40m with full rest is the most anaerobic workout a runner can do.

Err, but it would be alactic, anaerobic, stressing only the immediate energy release systems, with no lactate buildup.

P White wrote:

Please you are kidding me Ras?

They put an enormous effort into promoting people like Ajee WIlson and Mary Cain.

F*ck, why do people think that asking for the sports stars to come aggressively and vocally against PEDs is a bad thing????????????

Are you kidding ME, Patrick?

Why do you think you can SLANDER someone (because this is exactly what you're doing) just because YOU decided that they improved too quickly?

What in the world gives you the right to drag people's names through the mud with ZERO EVIDENCE other than an performance that YOU decided was "too good"?

Undoubtedly you have ZERO practical knowledge of the training and performance level of these athletes to begin with, so your arm-chair quarterback antics are even more heinous.

It's despicable, and the Brojos endorsing your behavior has become one the staple reasons why this board does more to hurt than help the sport.

Classless act P wrote:

It's despicable, and the Brojos endorsing your behavior has become one the staple reasons why this board does more to hurt than help the sport.

Short term pain (hurt) for long term gain perhaps?

Look at cycling, where would it be now if the Paul Kimmage's of this world had been given more of an airing?

Like a few others, I also love this comment.

For many on here, mileage is king. However, chuck two guys doing the same mileage together in a distance race and who will win? The faster one.

Therefore, speed is crucial. The faster you are, the bigger the difference between top speed and your race pace (speed reserve ). And the bigger the speed reserve, the more comfortable you feel at race pace.

If 6 weeks is enough to work on speed, why doesn't Bolt just train for 6 weeks a year? Speed needs strength, technique, flexibility, plyos, all sorts of things. And the more you do them throughout the year, the faster you'll get and the more help you will get come race season.

Running efficiently is also something that needs to be emphasised a lot more. My kid improved when he started distance training as much because he developed an efficient stride as from the improved aerobic fitness. Sure, longer training helped him develop that more efficient stride initially. However, he can now have a break and come back fast, or run fast times off muscle memory, once he slots into that stride.

The "non-running cardio training" comment is another I am interested in. I think swimming's about as good an aerobic activity as you can find, and swimming reduces the strain on the lower body. If you've got injury concerns, or don't want to increase your mileage, or are already at the mileage limit, you can surely get aerobic benefits from a swimming session a week. And doing this once a week, focusing on longer intervals, won't increase upper body bulk.

A holistic training program is the most important thing. All of these aspects are important, and all need to be worked on all year round. And with due respect to the Lydiardists, he didn't advocate all of this.

One other question.

What about Rudisha and the Kenyans? Clean? I haven't heard stories about them. It helps to be 6'3 or 4 and have a huge stride.

Moronic wrote:

Classless act P wrote:

It's despicable, and the Brojos endorsing your behavior has become one the staple reasons why this board does more to hurt than help the sport.

Short term pain (hurt) for long term gain perhaps?

Look at cycling, where would it be now if the Paul Kimmage's of this world had been given more of an airing?

It's ridiculous to try and compare the two.

Where are the tests and the bags of needles and the ex-teammates, etc. speaking out against Rupp?

No, they are not the same at all.

The ONLY THING that Patrick (and anyone agreeing with his inane questions) has is Rupp's performances over the last few years being "too good".

And that's despicable.

Classless act P wrote:

Are you kidding ME, Patrick?

Why do you think you can SLANDER someone (because this is exactly what you're doing) just because YOU decided that they improved too quickly?

What in the world gives you the right to drag people's names through the mud with ZERO EVIDENCE other than an performance that YOU decided was "too good"?

Undoubtedly you have ZERO practical knowledge of the training and performance level of these athletes to begin with, so your arm-chair quarterback antics are even more heinous.

It's despicable, and the Brojos endorsing your behavior has become one the staple reasons why this board does more to hurt than help the sport.

Where did i slander anyone?

The whole thread has mainly referred to Rupp specifically so I will say that I personally believe that Ruupp is not taking anything banned. He is doing nothing against the rules of the sport. I will reserve use of the word 'clean' because I guess those guys are on lots of stuff that is not on the banned list but certainly I think he is legitimately following the rules of the sport.

Totally agree with everything except saying that Lydiard did not advocate training for raw speed-he did. Modern followers emphasise learning to sprint and proper strength training.

Jefe in the CO wrote:

By your statement, “Until you have actual proof, STFU and stop thinking that every time someone gets to a certain level it is time to start "asking the hard questions" (translated: Accusing athletes of cheating)...” you are suggesting that we don’t play the game at all. In a parallel universe where there was no prior knowledge this would be great advice but, in our world, the litany of PED induced results over the past several decades require that we play.

.

I am suggesting that we don't need to play the game at all. People are hurting the sport. Do we really need more unfounded accusations? Hasn't the sport been badgered enough? The sport is on life support for professionals and it is in now small part due to the endless negative publicity generated by the media. People are crapping the in beds they have to sleep in.

There isn't an intelligent fan around that doesn't already know that drugs are a problem in all sports, including Track and Field. There are countless people in the media and the sport itself who have been asking these questions. To have a site like this let accusations run wild like they do is a disservice to the sport they think they are helping.

If someone thinks so and so improved a little too fast, or, just can't believe for whatever reason (like white guy Rupp hanging with the east africans) or they simply don't like Salazar or Rupp in favor of Solinsky or some other runner, they have no problem accusing them.

For those people, I suggest you print your real names, addresses, phone numbers, etc. and send them to whomever you "ask the hard questions about". Lets see what kind of real courage you have.

This place is crawling with idiots and the brojos are letting them ruin a good thing. If they think they are helping the sport they are as blind, naive and dumb as they think everyone else is who don't question every damn performance.

Every athlete now is guilty until proven innocent, except they have no way to prove their innocence. If people have such a negative attitude towards the sport go and find another one to worry about. How about women's beach volleyball?

P White wrote:

Where did i slander anyone?

The whole thread has mainly referred to Rupp specifically so I will say that I personally believe that Ruupp is not taking anything banned. He is doing nothing against the rules of the sport. I will reserve use of the word 'clean' because I guess those guys are on lots of stuff that is not on the banned list but certainly I think he is legitimately following the rules of the sport.

Your insinuation that they (Solomon or whoever else) are doping to run the times they run is SLANDER.

Your entire post essentially amounts to SLANDER.

Your allegations about anything you "think" without definitive proof is SLANDER. Implying he isn't "clean" because of his improvement is SLANDER.

And it's PATHETIC.

This is spot on.

Well put.

This thread and the pimping of it by the Blojo's just proves their desperate agenda to justify slandering and smearing primarily One Runner and One Coach for over the past half decade.

Disingenuous, pathetic and juvenile.

You want to beat a drum? Beat a drum for tougher penalties. Tougher testing.

You never get into what WADA and the IAAF do in detail. THAT takes too much work. Slandering and smearing elite runners...only takes a few seconds.

You want to sing your own praises?

Then instead of claiming you ask the questions credentialed media don't ask, the next time you are in front of Rupp or whomever you suspect, in the mixed zone, ask the questions like men.

You won't because you are little cowards on the internet, and not credible journalists.

Disingenuous spoiled children in the darkness of your message boards. Lame.

Do some work. Some actual work. Reform your cesspool of a website and become a credible source.

Wait, that takes actual work and critical thinking.

Kudo's to those who join me in defending those bashed and abused, slandered and smeared on this website over the past half decade+.

...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite runners will be interviewed here.

...There is a reason exactly Zero Elite USA coaches will be interviewed here.

There is a reason almost every university and high school coach has a policy BANNING their teams from frequenting this website.

The Lojo's can revel in bad faith, bad behavior, and delusion all they want -- the entire nation of organized runners CAN'T be wrong.

This site has exactly ZERO credibility.

I don't know about zero credibility. Its a great place to find all the running news in one place, and Canova isn't exactly a nobody. That being said, granted the message board is a joke and you have to wade thru tons of garbage to pick good stories.

Anyway back to this thread. Does anyone have an idea of the kinds of all the (legal) meds that Rupp is taking, that could benefit his running?

This one is much harder to take down than Lance since you have to take down Nike. Yes, its happening inside Nike walls in the "kitchen" and blood samples are being sent out. Why would rupp fly back to portland from boston during flu season for 36hrs? Training, doubtful. The effects of a good effort would largely be lost by flying 12hrs.

=====

Young attractive wife at home and prospect of sitting in a hotel room for a wekk... you think young men are worried about the flu or jet lag when compared to that? Seriously?

"I was a competitive athlete as a kid (3.56/8.35 for 1500/3000 at 18) but stopped competing at around 20."

3:56 for 1500m, so 4:13 for mile, but 8:35 for 3k at age 18? And he calls out Rupp for running (3:50i mile, and 8:33 3k) what Rupp is running at 26, 8:33 when he was 4:01 miler at 18 and currently a 3:50i miler but still only runs 8:33 with a 26:48 endurance? This Patrick White's 8:35 at 18 with a 3:56 1500m looks more suspicious than anything in Rupp's career progression.