You're absolutely right. I'm evincing here, for what it's worth.
You're absolutely right. I'm evincing here, for what it's worth.
It seems to me that the advantage Cam brings to the table is not 160 mile weeks, but 48 second 400 speed (which neither Bekele nor Rupp possess).
Rupp used 100+mpw to get from ~27:20 to 26:48. Solinsky did somewhat likewise (if he is ever able to recover from the high mileage to be what he once was). Cam perhaps used the high mileage to get to where Rupp and Solinsky were before the high mileage, and it is difficult to see what training leverage he has left.
Would Cam be better off in the 1500-5000 range, where that sprint speed might be more lethal a la Manzano?
coach d wrote:It seems to me that the advantage Cam brings to the table is not 160 mile weeks, but 48 second 400 speed (which neither Bekele nor Rupp possess)
eh ??
where do you get 48s speed from ???
hicham has said himself he had 49/50 speed whereas his coach said more realistic 48
if cam has 48 speed & with his immense endurance he shoud be running close to hicham's times - at worst 3'27/3'28/3'44/3'45
has levins ever run a 1500/mile which looked like a 3'27/3'28/3'44/3'45 in disguise ???
Read wrote:Well I was there and I know how to take splits, but believe whatever you want. Cam has plenty of speed is my point. Just wanted to restate that this was also the same day that he ran his first sub 4. He is a stud, and has plenty of improvement left.
anyone can time relay splits
what they can't control is how much distance the guy ran
your splits maybe accurate but was his distance run virtually exactly 400m or did he get stick late & hand off early ???
Canada Coach wrote:
How is 1:50.81 converted to 1:49
that's probably right
kip's 1'42.67i converts to high-1'41 outdoors when some physics applied ( & low-1'41 when adding in pacing to 400m - he ran it solo ) - indoor tracks require double the centripetal force/energy to run the bends compared to outdoors
i'd certainly offer a 1'50.8i as high-1'49 outdoors
i'll have to redo those estimates as he probably had 1'49.0 - 1'49.5 speed when lining up for games
If you read a lot of Levins did last year, he kept his high mileage up for most of the year. He only seems to come down in mileage one week before major competitions. He talked about running 150 miles right before beating Lalang at Mt Sac and also talked about getting up into 130 mpw right before the Olympics.
hicham has said himself he had 49/50 speed
LOL Hicham trolling like a boss. If you believe that then you're a fool.
Yes, Cam does not taper too much. I believe he was running good mileage all spring right until 2 weeks before NCAAs. He beat Lalang and ran 27:26 on very big mileage - 130+ mpw. And the other interesting thing about him is that he loves to sprint and does it weekly year around.
There is 0.0% chance that Levins has 48s speed. That's bad even for you, coach d.
Ho Hum wrote:
There is 0.0% chance that Levins has 48s speed. That's bad even for you, coach d.
This is from someone that said they saw him run a 48 4 x 400m split. In my experience, people (including coaches) have no idea how to properly time relay splits, so I take them with a grain of salt.
Ho Hum wrote:
There is 0.0% chance that Levins has 48s speed. That's bad even for you, coach d.
I am absolutely convinced that Levins has sub50 speed, and maybe even 48. He runs 26 at the end of a 27:27 ffs. He has done 53/54 at the end of some 5000s. Many workouts end with a 52. How can anyone do those things and NOT have sub50 in them?
You are vastly over-rated. How can you talk "52" here? Have you watched the last lap of some of those races?
ventolin^3 wrote:
this is my 1st post on the topic
the key here is his speed
looking at this :
http://www.directathletics.com/athletes/track/129446.htmlhe has excellent ( surprisingly good ) at 1'50i ( 1'51 outdoors )
it's reasonable to have offered him 1'50.0 at his peak this year
various lines of fit for him using 1'50.0
52.0 -> 3'36.5 , 7'35.5 , 13'06.7 , 27'28.3
( he's already run quicker over 10k, so that indicates he was at worst 13'06 this year )
52.1 -> 3'36.2 , 7'34.0 , 13'03.4 , 27'19.2
( this is more like it as his 27'27pb musta been nearer 27'20 at even pace/peak shape )
52.2 -> 3'35.8 , 7'32.6 , 13'00.1 , 27'10.1
( this last line might be a touch quick but it's not impossible that lining up at games he wouda been peak career shape ( so far ) & well below 27'20
that woud mean he was capable of 13-flat already this year & if he gets stronger & doesn't lose much speed, then he coud really blast thru 13'00 next year )
I heard some crazy rumour that v3 knew his stuff. You know shit. How can anyone who has watched Levins say what you have said here? You have watched him, right?
ventolin^3 wrote:
blah blah blah blah blah
i can't see cam anywhere close to 50s speed...
Ventolin is right, and you guys are really overestimating Levins's speed. The strength of a very fit runner like Levins, or even Bekele in his prime, is that he can approach top speed even at the end of races, not that he has unbelievable natural speed.
Ho Hum wrote:
Ventolin is right, and you guys are really overestimating Levins's speed. The strength of a very fit runner like Levins, or even Bekele in his prime, is that he can approach top speed even at the end of races, not that he has unbelievable natural speed.
ventolin is just about never right, is essentially just full of sh!t, p!ss, and vinegar, and can only spew absurd insults when such truth is repeated over and over again.
he's a joke and quite possibly one of the worst posters on here.
ventolin^3 wrote:
if cam has 48 speed & with his immense endurance he shoud be running close to hicham's times - at worst 3'27/3'28/3'44/3'45
has levins ever run a 1500/mile which looked like a 3'27/3'28/3'44/3'45 in disguise ???
I'm sorry to break the news, v3, but Hicham was pharmaceutically aided in plugging his 48" speed into the 1500m. Please carry on, I am very entertained by your bizarre numerical deductions and idiomatic writing.
Cam is a hero.
ventolin^3 wrote:i'll have to redo those estimates as he probably had 1'49.0 - 1'49.5 speed when lining up for games
offering him more like 1'49.0 speed at games, then some lines of fit at the time are :
with 1'49.0
51.4 -> 3'35.0 , 4'53.0 , 7.33.1 , 13'03.7 , 27'24.9
51.5 -> 3'34.6 , 4'52.4 , 7.31.7 , 13'00.4 , 27'15.8
51.6 -> 3'34.3 , 4'51.7 , 7.30.3 , 12'57.1 , 27'06.7
i like look of 2nd/3rd lines indicating he had something like mid-51 speed, sub-3'35, close to 7'30-flat & sub-13 ability at time of games
he'd probably take those as a base to build on
i do think he needs more speed/less mileage as 12'50 is very possible within a coupla years
I'll say it again: HE OFTEN ENDS BIG WORKOUTS WITH A 52.
You still want to plug 51s as his 400 potential into your magic formula?
a flying 400m with generous hand-time isn't worth squatlearn something from a coach to guys much faster than cam at 5/10k :http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4203011&page=2
Nicholas Kemboi (26'30"03) able to finish last 600m in Bruxelles 2003 in 1'23", almost beating Haile (26'29"87), could run in about 51"5
Ahmed Hassan (26'38" in the same race) NEVER could run faster than 53"5 / 54"
Imane Merga (26'48" this year) able to finish in 53"5 in 5000m last year, can run 400m near 51", not faster
Moses Mosop (26'49") finished last lap in WCh 2005 (bronze medal) faster than Kenenisa and Sileshi (53"4 for him, but was only 5th at the bell). He NEVER can run near 52"
John Korir (26'52") had a speed not better than 54"
Mark Bett (26'52") could run about 51"
Wilson Kiprop (last year winning Kenyan Champs in altitude in 27'26" and the African Champs in 27'32" woth last lap in 55"6, that could easy run under 27' at sea level) became the WCh of HM and NEVER could run under 53"
Not too hard to find people faster than cam. Heck I can name more than ten just from the Olympics. SOOOO overrated!