New Englandah wrote:
this is because we rule the country
maybe... but you have no style. Come to So Cal and you'll get schooled. Our girls are hotter, music is better and our lives are more exciting.
oh yeah, to all you suckaz out there, life does exist west of the Mississippi!
Freelove wrote:
Just off the top of my head, NYU, Washington U, MIT, Williams, Haverford, Chicago, and Carnegie Mellon all cost at least $50,000/year and consistently go to nationals. Try again?
Yes, which is what I was getting at. Props to them for having academic standards as well! Don't forget Dickinson or Johns Hopkins which are also extremely expensive.
For the record, NCC is NOT as inexpensive as you think- tuition plus room and board is near 38 grand a year. Not the 15k you seem to think it is
NCC is significantly cheaper than most east coast schools. $38k/year doesn't get you to the good schools out there!
Also consider how many schools (D1,2, or 3) are on the east coast. There are more colleges in Pennsylvania than there are in Wisconsin and Minnesota combined. Now consider how many schools are in/near NYC, Boston, and Washington DC. A lot of choices and places to spread out the talent out east. Pa alone has 130+ colleges/universities versus 94 combined between Wisconsin and Minnesota. Illinois has 70-75 schools while New York has 95-100. Massachusetts has an additional 95-100. Midwest has it easy trying to find talent since there are fewer options out there. Not making excuses for the rest of the country but they have it made in the midwest... they should be dominant!
Admiral Ackbar wrote:
New Englandah wrote:this is because we rule the country
maybe... but you have no style. Come to So Cal and you'll get schooled. Our girls are hotter, music is better and our lives are more exciting.
oh yeah, to all you suckaz out there, life does exist west of the Mississippi!
but aren't all ur girls fake and anorexic?
These arguments are idiotic and I shake my head reading this. "They have it made in the midwest... they should be dominant." Ever take in to account that demographics have to do with why there are more colleges/universities on the East Coast than the Midwest (particularly Wisconsin)? Wisconsin has a small population when comparing some of the Eastern states. It's not having it 'made', it's simply a 'lack of choices'. Students view that there are less Midwest options, and will choose programs that are strong in XC and track. This could be argued for the East Coast, showing that kids have their choice, but will always find a strong program if they want to attend the university.
Coming from Illinois, look at the top individuals in the past couple of years. Derrick = Stanford, Havel = Stanford, Sulkin = Minnesota, Verzbicas = Oregon. Atleast on the top end, staying in the Midwest is not always the option. If there are strong xc/track programs, with quality academics for a tuition cost of ~35/40K, why not join that tradition? You East Coast runners complain of "you couldn't even afford our tuition rates" is a crap argument. Why don't you get off your high horse then and come to the Midwest, pay a cheaper tuition (still not "cheap" by any standards) and get on the podium. Since from the view of it, you're only going to have one trophy coming back to the East.
Thats what she said wrote:
Also consider how many schools (D1,2, or 3) are on the east coast. There are more colleges in Pennsylvania than there are in Wisconsin and Minnesota combined. Now consider how many schools are in/near NYC, Boston, and Washington DC. A lot of choices and places to spread out the talent out east. Pa alone has 130+ colleges/universities versus 94 combined between Wisconsin and Minnesota. Illinois has 70-75 schools while New York has 95-100. Massachusetts has an additional 95-100. Midwest has it easy trying to find talent since there are fewer options out there. Not making excuses for the rest of the country but they have it made in the midwest... they should be dominant!
New York 19,378,102
Illinois 12,830,632
Massachusetts 6,547,629
Pennsylvania 12,702,379
Wisconsin 5,686,986
Minnesota 5,303,925
So, with the exception of Massachusetts, those numbers aren't too far out of proportion when you consider demographics. Also, the flagship state schools are much bigger in the Midwest than New England- a lot of pretty good runners go to U of I or Wisconsin-Madison and just run club.
Here is my handicap for the women's regions:
New England - 5 - Simply the best.
Atlantic - 5 - A very strong second.
Central - 5 -5th team makes it on reputation.
Great Lakes - 4 - 4 very good teams, no 5th.
Mideast - 4 - 3 very good teams, one team gets lucky.
West - 4 - 1 great team, 2 good teams, and one team that does not belong.
Mid West - 3 - I can't believe they are that weak.
South - 2 - No surprise.
It is possible though that you can swap the West and Mid West if there is a surprise in the MW.
Fake and anorexic? Nah, I think you have the teams confused with the models cruisin around NYC. You ever seen those chicks??? Man, there are some skinny women cruising downtown NYC.
Our girls are pretty tan, quick and probably care more about surfers than farmers or DC lobbyists/ politicians.
New National Rankings, interesting flip flop of Dickinson and Calvin with Wheaton staying put in between. I guess everything will be made more clear at Regionals.
Admiral Ackbar wrote:
Come to So Cal...music is better
FALSE
also, what happened to Hopkins? My alma mater, Swarthmore, beat em, and I'm very surprised.
paintrain66 wrote:Is this more evenly matched than the NCC vs haverford race of last year?
A year ago, right before the meet, when no one was paying attention to Haverford-NCC, I wrote this:
Carted Off wrote:
How is there not more chatter on here over the NCC-Haverford showdown?
You have the two most accomplished coaches in Div. 3 finally throwing down in xc, after over 30 years of missing each other's peaks so that they were never in top form at the same time.
Carius refers to Donnelly as the best middle distance coach in the country (and he means the whole country, not just D3), and Donnelly refers to Carius as the best distance coach in the country (ditto). Donnelly has a standing invite from Gags to join the Oregon staff and coach Nick Symmonds et. al.; I would bet that Carius has a similar offer.
Donnelly has coached a sub-4:00 miler in Paranya and the D3 1500 meet record holder in Foley; Carius has coached a 13:53/28:38 5k/10k guy in Mayer, 'nuff said (though I could obviously go on about the number of team and individual champions Carius has thrown down).
The brief window when Haverford was a player on the national stage in xc, NCC was in the only real dry spell of Carius's tenure, but now NCC is back. From an historical perspective, this is the most exciting D3 xc championship meet in the last decade. The only thing that would have been better would be to put Paranya and Mayer on the track for a 5k with a rabbit taking them out in 4:20. I'm freaking psyched to watch this.
I now provisionally take back the 'most exciting,' because while I think last year's ended up being superb--I mean, the favorite individual getting edged by the underdog victor's top individual, leading the underdog to victory--last year's excitement only builds into this year and builds it up. Not only do we get the historically best two coaches in division 3, but we're in the second year of an xc rivalry, with Haverford looking to start down the road to a multi-year dynasty even while NCC looks to take their 2-1-2 finishes the last three years and turn those into another one of their dynasties. I say 'provisionally' because regionals could bring some change, and Haverford hasn't been completely consistent--look at Princeton--but this could be one epic mfing nationals xc race.
I have no idea how NCC vs Haverford will play out, but I think there will be a big gap between 2 and 3.
It may be pretty close if one of the 3-5 teams can improve their 5th man.
Freelove wrote:
It may be pretty close if one of the 3-5 teams can improve their 5th man.
I think the entiretop 5 split of the 3-5 teams is gonna have to be "improved". if its going to even slightly be close.
Haverford scored 17 points on the #6 ranked team
NCC scored 15 points on the #5 ranked team
a 5th man makes no difference in that situation......
not to mention the 1-5 spread for both teams was miniscule.
The New England Regional race will be really interesting this weekend. One top 25 ranked team will miss out on the big dance.
I would also expect to see the Mideast race be closer than the Centennial Conference results indicated. I saw some pictures and it looked like they were running in a blizzard with 6 inches of snow. Those conditions change things. Also looked to me like Dickinsons Mynatt who has finished as high as first and as low as fifth tanked, maybe he was sick? I would expect him to improve and tighten things up. One would assume a 14:47 guy isnt the 60th best guy in the Centennial Conference. That said, if Dickinson can't make it closer than one must assume Haverford is the real deal.
So are there any predictions for the ultra-comeptitive Midwest? Team looks like NCC and individual maybe Nelson? Thoughts?
NCC
WashU
Oshkosh
Lax
Wheaton
Nelson
Perez
Klein
Burnstein
Stymiest
How many does each region get out?
NCC-Haverford will be close. I would bet that both score <100. It will be that tight. Every place will count.
I'd say Burnstein will be more in contention for the region title, but i'm not as sold on Perez.