Wyner

Hey Real Men Drink Yeungling, tell me - what major events have you won that make the heps 1500 look like a 'fun run'?

slate burger wrote:

The guy backed up his celebration as he did it, and then taunted the crowd that taunted him.

and this is why the dq was the right call. it was a taunt, not a celebration of himself. that's unsportsmanlike. it doesn't matter that he was baited by the crowd into doing it, the fact of the matter is that he did it. you can't dq a group of spectators, but can dq an individual on the track. as a competitor, that's the way it is.

you can't say that the bolt or rupp celebrations were taunts. you can (and did) say that about this case.

it's also a logical fallacy that just because rupp and bolt were not disqualified that wyner should not be. if you're driving 85 mph and keeping up with the flow of traffic, you're still speeding and a cop can still write you a ticket. just because others might get away with it doesn't change the fact that you broke a rule.

not exactly wrote:

and this is why the dq was the right call. it was a taunt, not a celebration of himself. that's unsportsmanlike. it doesn't matter that he was baited by the crowd into doing it, the fact of the matter is that he did it. you can't dq a group of spectators, but can dq an individual on the track. as a competitor, that's the way it is.

We've established

1. that (at least) his taunt of the crowd was unsportsmanlike. Many eyewitnesses also claim that his finishing stretch celebration was more than self celebration. 2. There is a rule about unsportsmanlike behavior.

3. Race officials uphold the rules of the sport

4. The race officials decided that a rule had been broken and disqualified him.

If you want to start complaining about why other athletes were not disqualified in the past, why don't we start attacking the officials of those meets about how they didn't do their jobs.

Or the next step, why hasn't discussion about how to get the sportsmanship rule removed from the Ivy League been discussed. It seems many have issues with it. Why don't you do something about THAT so you can protect people like Wyner in the future?

I agree there should be some discussion about the rule itself...

track and field needs to remove rules the disqualify people after the fact for infractions that provided them no unfair advantage (impeding another runner, leaving their lane, PEDs, etc...)...it just cheapens the result and no one, not the person disqualified or the person bumped up in the results is satisfied with the result (if the person in 2nd has any competitive spirit I seriously doubt he truly considers himself the HEPs champion...nor should he)

I know unsportsmanlike conduct should carry some type of penalty but but leave it at a remrimand or a fine to the school or in truly serious cases disqualification for future events at the same meet, but the race that happened happened and trying to change the results just hurts the sport and everyone involved...you dont see them taking back touchdowns when a player is called for excessive celebration

and officials dont get a free pass by simply saying "thats the rule, we enforce the rule"...thats where you get idiots who disqualify state champions for wearing the wrong color hair tie, there is such a thing as a spirit or intent of a rule and that is what officials are supposed to protect, while interfering as little as possible with the competition, not enforce the absolute extremity of every single rule

however, that may or may not be applicable in this situation (rule is meant to prevent taunting and wyners bow could concievably be considered taunting, however well deserved by the booing crowd who were guilty of showing far less sportsmanship than Wyner...however no, you cant disqualify a group of spectators)

How is it unsportsmanlike to make a hilarious gesture to a hostile crowd?

Actually we've established:

1) Wyner's celebration was typical of a heps race

2) The crowd's reaction was by FAR the most notable aspect of the race

3) Wyner should not have been DQed

Samara should be replaced by a better head coach - Princeton could be much better under less of an old-boy.

I'd love to see how many of the handles on this thread come from Princeton/Dartmouth/Cornell IPs

Total Loser wrote:

Hey Real Men Drink Yeungling, tell me - what major events have you won that make the heps 1500 look like a 'fun run'?

The events that I won I didn't parade around like I had won the Olympics.

That's the point - I knew that whatever I was doing - no matter how well I was doing it - wasn't really important enough to grandstand and act like a douchebag.

People didn't hate Bruce Hyde, who dominated for a year or two. It has nothing to do with Wyner's success, or that fact that he goes to Cornell, and everything to do with the attitude he projects.

Unfortunately, you have a pretty short memory. I probably deserved what I got but there wasn't a guy in a princeton jersey who didn't dislike me. In addition, I seem to remember the entire Penn team storming the track after I got beat in the indoor 3k at harvard. It was so bad they ran in front of, and impeded, a scoring runner from Dartmouth! Did we throw a fit and try to get Tully DQ'd? NO! I may or may not have thrown some trash cans around in the bathroom and cursed the Penn team but I would never of wanted Tully DQ'd. In a way it was a compliment that Penn though it was such a big deal for their guy to beat me.

I'm just saying. There's a long, long history of the top guys being disliked in the Ivy League. Do you remember Tom Mcardle? wait, neither do I... jk.

The real story here is that the teams are at the point where they think this behavior is acceptable. Believe me, when Princeton was at the peak of their dynasty at the end of the 90's, lots of people "hated" them. As far as I know, this is the first time that an athlete has been overwhelmingly booed at the heps. The Yale team used to Hiss at us for a season or two, but thats about it.

All in all, Jimmy might of been a prick in your mind but he didn't impede or taunt anyone. The only appropriate response to a crowd booing you is to wave or bow, not walk off in shame. Anyone advocating a DQ should grow some balls and realize we aren't playing squash here. I personally dont care what some 20 min 5ker thinks on this situation. I haven't talked to one elite runner I know that thinks this is even close to a DQ. If it was, as a friend of mine said, Stember would never of won a race.

Heps is such a soft meet, blah blah blah. You shouldnt celebrate because its so easy to win, blah blah blah.

On any given year, to win a Heps 1500m, you need to be in 4 min shape and run well on the day. Unless you tell us your name there's no way you're qualified to say that heps is a cakewalk... Just because someone is focusing on becoming an all american and running well when it counts doesn't mean that winning the Heps isn't a huge deal.

The race I am most proud of is when I won the Heps xc title. It was a big deal to me! Did that mean I wasn't focusing on regionals/nationals? no! Heps just isn't that easy to win people! Oh and btw, there's a picture of me throwing up a number 1 sign with 200 to go in that race. I knew I had it won and was ecstatic. Should I of been DQ'd?

I have not taken the time to read everyone's post here, but I watched the race and think it is BS that he was DQed. That was stupid. Who filed the protest anyway, the Dartmouth Coach or the Princeton Coach? Both of those coaches think way too much of themselves..........IMO.

Bruce, this is classic letsrun, and you should know that: no matter how absurd it would be to take a certain position (such as: wyner's DQ was justified), there will always be a few people to take that position because (take your pick depending on the person):

a) they truly believe what they are writing and are idiots

b) they are jealous and want to bring someone down/enjoy seeing someone get treated unfairly

c) they like to argue, and want to piss off people reading the board

Often, as is the case on this thread, one person will reply under 5 different names to exaggerate the effect of the opposition to the intelligent position.

But c'mon, you know all this, this is how wejo makes a living, right?? Off off the postings of knuckleheads like this and then the ensuing fight. The ends justify the means (the ends being wejo getting to spend the rest of his life copying/pasting links from other news sites onto his site, and occasionally writing "sick!" about a performance or calling someone a drug cheat, while the means being the 1000's of hits his site gets and the ensuing advertising $'s because of the knuckleheads and the people like us that argue with them).

So it all works out in the end.

TK1451 wrote:

miss manners wrote:

and who tripped the princeton guy? it wasn't wyner, was it?

It was the other Cornell guy. Looked questionable but not DQ-worthy. Would have been hilarious if both their athletes had gotten DQ'ed.

It looked to me like the Princeton idiot was trying to move OUT so he wasn't in the lead rabbiting like a dufus and as he moved out HE caught the foot of the other Cornell runner and went down. The Princeton guy is the idiot in the race. He did do a nice job rabbiting the field. Props to his coaches on his great racing there.

Bruce hit the nail on the head with this post. As a former Heps champ (who witnessed [instigated??] the aforementioned heated rivalries), I can say that there is no way Wyner should have been DQ'd. No impeding of other runners. No excessive celebration or staring down his opponents. The bow afterwards might have been a bit much, but hey the guy was getting booed. Not like he flipped them off or mock-mooned them (a la Randy Moss). Would my former coach have been pissed at antics like that? Yeah, probably- ultimately you are representing your teammates and your university (oops, college if you're Dartmouth). But the bottom line is this: you don't want the guy celebrating? Well then beat him. And no, I did not go to Cornell.

Bruce, please reacquaint yourself with me.

Some of you Ivy league folks are so hysterical about this I almost hurt from laughing. I mean seriously, what is more unusual here: A runner celebrating a win or a crowd f***ing booing him for it? One of these things happens all the time

Then I start thinking that some of you tight-assed rules lawyers might actually be the leaders of tomorrow, and I get scared.

I mean really, even if this was within the purview of the unsportsmanlike conduct rule (it wasn't), just ask yourself this question:

Rules aside, would you want any athlete who celebrated in this manner to be disqualified from any race?

If you said no, then you're pretty much admitting personal bias. If you said yes go grab some vaseline and try to get started on that stick up your ass.

This week I am embarrassed to be a former Heps runner. As someone said, there is the spirit of the law, and the letter of the law. This is a case of the Ivy League putting up this antiquated front that the conference is on a superior level of sportsmanship than other conferences. Give it up and get with the times. Oh my, someone with a personality won the race! He bowed! "Gee, let's put a stop to behavior like that, so people don't act like themselves and races are emotionless. Let's keep these races exactly like they were in 1927."

This is all a matter of jealousy. People jealous of the best team's best runner. When I was at Heps, people hated Princeton and Penn because they were the best. Now people hate Cornell. That said, I have never seen a runner booed. That's the most pathetic part about this whole debacle. I would never, in a thousand years, boo a fellow competitor. The fact that it came from other participants in the meet is shameful. Root for your team; don't root for the demise of a competitor.

Wyner ran a great, tough race and now his name will never be listed as HEPS 1500m champion. I know that that must hurt him deep down. It's sad on the part of the officials to DQ him for a type of celebration that has occurred many times before. How would you react if people booed you? The bow was hilarious and fitting; he could have come up with a much worse impromptu response than that.

I could be wrong, but it appears that the DQ is mostly the fault of the Princeton coach. Where is the sportsmanship in that? I would be embarrassed if he was my coach. I bet Maag doesn't consider himself the victor, but now history is re-written by a few guys caught up in the moment of a screaming coach and a spiritless crowd. Also, who uses an athlete as a rabbit in a Heps 1500 final? What are you teaching that runner? The kid sacrifices a chance to score himself, so he can increase his teammate's chance to win (and in the process almost trips up another runner)? LAME.

I at least hope Wyner finds solace in the fact that this is getting so much notoriety, and that most (i.e. rational) people are on his side. I will never agree with those who think this DQ is merited. If you do, then I feel sorry for your uptight philosophy on spirited competition.

I support Wyner in this case. I would have been very angry at the celebration but IMO he earned the right to be happy and show it. The bow at the end would have never happened if the a--holes from Dartmouth had not booed him. What poor sportsmanship they showed. The two groups that suck here are 1) the Princeton Coach for filing the protest and 2) the entire Dartmouth team for BOOING. High school kids out there, remember this when you think about which Ivy league team you join.

Wyner rules. I can't wait to see him meet those DB's in regionals.

Dartmouth = Loudmouths chanting bullcrap from the stands. Team DQ