He wasn't 14 when he ran his 200 pr, as it was in 2024. He was born in 2008. But even so, if he's continuing to improve he hasn't run any faster over the distance, including in training, and most md runners will run 200s in training. So we are still waiting on 21-high (out of blocks).
I like how you act like you watch all of his workouts.
If he had run 21-high in a work out we would have been told. It would have been a pb. We were told about his 21.8 with a flying start.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
It was a sprint shortly AFTER a distance event silly. Hence, tired legs.
The one thing is obvious with every post - your opinions are that of an observer, not a track runner.
It was a pb. He has never run faster. So how tired was he?
See how disingenuous Army is? Comparing short sprints in a meet to someone racing the 800m and then 400m in terms of fatigue/exhaustion. As someone stated earlier in the thread, Army truly is the site’s resident lolcow. As an aside it also shows Army never raced at all, at any distance. He really is here just to troll and argue.
Army just creates strawman arguments while ignoring actual facts that prove him wrong or that he simply dislikes. Bizarre old man. “…all PRs are run on tired legs,” and then he brings up Owens running some vert short races to compare against someone running a hard 800 by a hard 400. Hilarity abounds.
The 400 is a sprint. It wouldn't be that demanding for an endurance athlete. Owens competed in a succession of events within 3/4 of an hour and set world records in all of them. He also had a back injury.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
1.4 seconds since his 1:45/1:46 would signal à 3 second improvement to 1:42/1:43.
Remember, he didn’t run the 400m while close to peak shape.
Yes, I believe a 1:39 is very possible for his career but that’s unrelated, we’re talking about his 400 while in 1:42 shape.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
You’re literally on the record here saying that an improvement in the 800 generally happens without a commensurate improvement in sprint times and you have emphasized multiple times that CL has likely only improved his endurance. But now you go and correlate a 3 sec improvement in the 800 w a 1.4 sec improvement in the 400??!!!😵💫🤪
And of course it’s been pointed out that CL was only a 1:46 guy when he ran his 400 PR (and Owens never ran an 800 during his quadruple sprint/jump prowess ~ it takes a lot more out of your legs than merely sprinting and if you truly were a coach or genuine aficionado, you would know this). CL then subsequently went on to improve his 800 PR by four seconds. So, once again, using your “logic,” it is very conceivable that he’s improved his 400 time by 1.31 seconds. The 3-4 second jump in the 800 you are referring to has already happened!
You are clearly a troll. You actually argue like Harambe and as much. But I believe he’s only in his 30s, so he has yet to learn the humility and wisdom that life will surely teach him. I think you’re like a 70-something year old Kiwi who just has a strong animus against Americans and who has nothing better to do but argue on a message board all day long about such trivialities. Which is sad, honestly.
I am touched by your concern. But you can't follow an argument. For a md athlete to improve their time in a md event it would require an improvement of endurance but not necessarily an improvement in speed. But if they have a very substantial improvement in speed, coupled with the improved endurance they have demonstrated - as Lutkenhaus shows with his 1:42x time - then it is reasonable to infer that their increased speed will be reflected in a faster time in the longer event. (Contrary to what you suggest, there is no indication that Lutkenhaus has already increased his speed by 1.3 over the 400. You are simply guessing he might have with nothing to show it.) Lutkenhaus would therefore be able to reduce his best 800 time from 1:46 to 1:42 without having to be faster than his pb of 46 for the 400. But if he is able to now run 44-mid, which you fantasize he could do, then with his improved endurance he would now be way faster than 1:42 over the 800 - probably at least a couple of seconds.
What you further don't seem to understand is that if he was capable of 44-mid for the 400 he would need to be able to run somewhere between 20.5-20.8 for the 200. Not a whiff of anything like that.
However, the core problem with what you and others argue here is your inability to grasp the fundamental difference between being a 44 sec 400 runner and a 1:42 800 runner. The former is a true sprinter, while the latter is an endurance athlete albeit a very fast one. Lutkenhaus is undoubtedly the latter; he has shown no signs of the former.
Why is it prs here are always run on "tired legs"? It was a sprint, not a distance event. Jesse Owens set 4 world records in one afternoon in the span of three quarters of an hour.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
1.4 seconds since his 1:45/1:46 would signal à 3 second improvement to 1:42/1:43.
Remember, he didn’t run the 400m while close to peak shape.
Yes, I believe a 1:39 is very possible for his career but that’s unrelated, we’re talking about his 400 while in 1:42 shape.
There is nothing to suggest Lutkenhaus has already "improved" 1.4 secs over the 400. As I have said, an improvement from 1:46 to 1:42 can be accomplished with an improvement in endurance and not necessarily speed, so he could do that with a 46 for the 400 - which is still fast for an 800 runner.
But if you think he's now capable of 44.6 for the 400 he is nearly a second faster than Rudisha was over the distance. With that kind of speed and that kind of improvement it would stand to reason then that he would be now faster than Rudisha's 800 world record.
However, what is essentially being argued is that if he is capable of 44-mid for the 400 (and thus presumably faster if he focused on it) he would be a world class sprinter as well as a md athlete. Do you seriously think that?
You’re literally on the record here saying that an improvement in the 800 generally happens without a commensurate improvement in sprint times and you have emphasized multiple times that CL has likely only improved his endurance. But now you go and correlate a 3 sec improvement in the 800 w a 1.4 sec improvement in the 400??!!!😵💫🤪
And of course it’s been pointed out that CL was only a 1:46 guy when he ran his 400 PR (and Owens never ran an 800 during his quadruple sprint/jump prowess ~ it takes a lot more out of your legs than merely sprinting and if you truly were a coach or genuine aficionado, you would know this). CL then subsequently went on to improve his 800 PR by four seconds. So, once again, using your “logic,” it is very conceivable that he’s improved his 400 time by 1.31 seconds. The 3-4 second jump in the 800 you are referring to has already happened!
You are clearly a troll. You actually argue like Harambe and as much. But I believe he’s only in his 30s, so he has yet to learn the humility and wisdom that life will surely teach him. I think you’re like a 70-something year old Kiwi who just has a strong animus against Americans and who has nothing better to do but argue on a message board all day long about such trivialities. Which is sad, honestly.
being a 44 sec 400 runner and a 1:42 800 runner.
In hundreds of posts he has argued against something he is doing himself regularly. Just astonishing.
Don't think he needs much time to spend focusing on it. Remember he ran 46 low after running 1:47 while he was still no where near his peak (Owen Powell was giving him a bit of trouble at 1:46, could probably run a 1:45 at the time of his state meet). Improving by 1.4 seconds by peaking and not having tired legs seems very possible.
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
Literally your words and your logic. The three second improvement in the 800 ALREADY HAPPENED since he ran that one, doubling back 46.3 400. The improvement you seek as proof for your argument quite literally already occurred, lol.
Nowhere have I suggested CL is capable of “mid-44s,” which just shows how disingenuous you are for a buggered, 70+ year old Kiwi. Lying like that. Heck, I don’t even personally think he can run sub-45 right now.
I’m merely pointing out the obvious, which is that a 1.31 sec improvement in the 400 isn’t nearly as unlikely for “potential” as you make it out to be. Your data points are literally a 22.1 from 15 years old and a rolling 21.8 (very relaxed, not all out) at the end of a tough workout. That’s what you are hanging your hat on while you continue to contort yourself w contradictions.
Go outside, go for a run, get some sun, Mate.🙂
This post was edited 31 seconds after it was posted.
It was a sprint shortly AFTER a distance event silly. Hence, tired legs.
The one thing is obvious with every post - your opinions are that of an observer, not a track runner.
It was a pb. He has never run faster. So how tired was he?
See? He’s contrarian just be contrarian. An old, decrepit man who obvioualy never, ever competed and has no idea what he’s talking about. He’s in it to get people to engage, since he rarely speaks with people in person, we know why. Notice how he again ignores that Lutkenhaus hasn’t raced at 400m since then. Because Snell and Coe never did this and could never do it, based on their 1 lap PBs, he has to ignore it!
Regarding Lutkenhaus, that really was a good effort in that state 400 when he came back after the 800. He was chasing one of the best 400m High Schoolers the US who was running fresh and did quite well. I beleive the winner ran 45.7. Very fast HS race, especially when the kid running 46.03 is doubling back from 1:47.
Army just creates strawman arguments while ignoring actual facts that prove him wrong or that he simply dislikes. Bizarre old man. “…all PRs are run on tired legs,” and then he brings up Owens running some vert short races to compare against someone running a hard 800 by a hard 400. Hilarity abounds.
The 400 is a sprint. It wouldn't be that demanding for an endurance athlete. Owens competed in a succession of events within 3/4 of an hour and set world records in all of them. He also had a back injury.
Back injury. We’re talking about fatigue. Obtuse to the end. Hey, Lutkenhaus ran 46.3 after a 1:47.03 800. Faster than Coe’s 400m PB when Coe was fresh. Why is that? 🤡
Improving by 1.4 secs over the 400 is similar to Lutkenhaus improving over 3 secs in the 800 - so 1:39-flat. Does that also seem "very possible"?
Literally your words and your logic. The three second improvement in the 800 ALREADY HAPPENED since he ran that one, doubling back 46.3 400. The improvement you seek as proof for your argument quite literally already occurred, lol.
Nowhere have I suggested CL is capable of “mid-44s,” which just shows how disingenuous you are for a buggered, 70+ year old Kiwi. Lying like that. Heck, I don’t even personally think he can run sub-45 right now.
I’m merely pointing out the obvious, which is that a 1.31 sec improvement in the 400 isn’t nearly as unlikely for “potential” as you make it out to be. Your data points are literally a 22.1 from 15 years old and a rolling 21.8 (very relaxed, not all out) at the end of a tough workout. That’s what you are hanging your hat on while you continue to contort yourself w contradictions.
Go outside, go for a run, get some sun, Mate.🙂
What I am "hanging my hat on" is that he shows no signs of being world class over the 400, which would be a 44-mid runner. That would require he is capable of 20.5-20.8 over the 200. Nothing he has done suggests that. The same applies to your suggestion he "might not even be sub-45". He is nowhere near that either. I am not interested if he simply lowers his 46.1 pb. I am not saying he can't.
Your claim that he has already made his "3 second improvement" in his 800 time, based on his 46.3 time for the 400, effectively reinforces my point that if he were to now carve a second and a half off his 400 pb - so 44.6 - he would therefore make another 3 second improvement over the 800. It is the same argument.
But everything you say is simply casuistic waffle to dispute my main point that there are no indications he could become a sprinter and be world class over the 400. That he might merely be better over the 400 than he currently is I am not disputing. I think you are the one who needs to go for a run, to clear your head.
It was a pb. He has never run faster. So how tired was he?
See? He’s contrarian just be contrarian. An old, decrepit man who obvioualy never, ever competed and has no idea what he’s talking about. He’s in it to get people to engage, since he rarely speaks with people in person, we know why. Notice how he again ignores that Lutkenhaus hasn’t raced at 400m since then. Because Snell and Coe never did this and could never do it, based on their 1 lap PBs, he has to ignore it!
Regarding Lutkenhaus, that really was a good effort in that state 400 when he came back after the 800. He was chasing one of the best 400m High Schoolers the US who was running fresh and did quite well. I beleive the winner ran 45.7. Very fast HS race, especially when the kid running 46.03 is doubling back from 1:47.
The "contrarian" is to argue that an athlete runs his fastest times when he is "tired". He said he was tired?
The 400 is a sprint. It wouldn't be that demanding for an endurance athlete. Owens competed in a succession of events within 3/4 of an hour and set world records in all of them. He also had a back injury.
Back injury. We’re talking about fatigue. Obtuse to the end. Hey, Lutkenhaus ran 46.3 after a 1:47.03 800. Faster than Coe’s 400m PB when Coe was fresh. Why is that? 🤡
You're talking about fatigue, as though you know it was a fact. How do you know Lutkenhaus was fatigued? Did he or his coach say so? Did they express disappointment that he might have run faster? He was competing in a sprint and not a distance event after he had recovered from his 800 - or he likely wouldn't have competed in the later event and certainly not run a pb.
But all that aside, what shows he can be world-class over the 400 - which is Quincy Wilson level, a whole two seconds faster?
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
See? He’s contrarian just be contrarian. An old, decrepit man who obvioualy never, ever competed and has no idea what he’s talking about. He’s in it to get people to engage, since he rarely speaks with people in person, we know why. Notice how he again ignores that Lutkenhaus hasn’t raced at 400m since then. Because Snell and Coe never did this and could never do it, based on their 1 lap PBs, he has to ignore it!
Regarding Lutkenhaus, that really was a good effort in that state 400 when he came back after the 800. He was chasing one of the best 400m High Schoolers the US who was running fresh and did quite well. I beleive the winner ran 45.7. Very fast HS race, especially when the kid running 46.03 is doubling back from 1:47.
The "contrarian" is to argue that an athlete runs his fastest times when he is "tired". He said he was tired?
No. You’re sidestepping. As always. In an interview he said he could “feel” the earlier 800 while racing the 400. Completely normal. You’re dodging because you were caught with your pants down. Others already asked you how many athletes have set their lifetime, full career 400 PR as part of a double? You act like Cooper is as old as the recently retired Clayton Murphy.
Literally your words and your logic. The three second improvement in the 800 ALREADY HAPPENED since he ran that one, doubling back 46.3 400. The improvement you seek as proof for your argument quite literally already occurred, lol.
Nowhere have I suggested CL is capable of “mid-44s,” which just shows how disingenuous you are for a buggered, 70+ year old Kiwi. Lying like that. Heck, I don’t even personally think he can run sub-45 right now.
I’m merely pointing out the obvious, which is that a 1.31 sec improvement in the 400 isn’t nearly as unlikely for “potential” as you make it out to be. Your data points are literally a 22.1 from 15 years old and a rolling 21.8 (very relaxed, not all out) at the end of a tough workout. That’s what you are hanging your hat on while you continue to contort yourself w contradictions.
Go outside, go for a run, get some sun, Mate.🙂
What I am "hanging my hat on" is that he shows no signs of being world class over the 400, which would be a 44-mid runner. That would require he is capable of 20.5-20.8 over the 200. Nothing he has done suggests that. The same applies to your suggestion he "might not even be sub-45". He is nowhere near that either. I am not interested if he simply lowers his 46.1 pb. I am not saying he can't.
Your claim that he has already made his "3 second improvement" in his 800 time, based on his 46.3 time for the 400, effectively reinforces my point that if he were to now carve a second and a half off his 400 pb - so 44.6 - he would therefore make another 3 second improvement over the 800. It is the same argument.
Not many people are on here asserting he can become a “world class” 400 runner, so you are arguing with the wind, per usual.
Nobody is reinforcing your nonsensical logic. If he is worth 1.4 sec faster over 400 than he was a year ago, it’s simply because he was a 1:46 runner when he ran 46.3. Now he is a 1:42 runner. So that commensurate, hypothetical improvement in the 400 has already happened, even if he hasn’t contested the event since his one appearance last May. This just isn’t difficult to comprehend.
What I am "hanging my hat on" is that he shows no signs of being world class over the 400, which would be a 44-mid runner. That would require he is capable of 20.5-20.8 over the 200. Nothing he has done suggests that. The same applies to your suggestion he "might not even be sub-45". He is nowhere near that either. I am not interested if he simply lowers his 46.1 pb. I am not saying he can't.
Your claim that he has already made his "3 second improvement" in his 800 time, based on his 46.3 time for the 400, effectively reinforces my point that if he were to now carve a second and a half off his 400 pb - so 44.6 - he would therefore make another 3 second improvement over the 800. It is the same argument.
Not many people are on here asserting he can become a “world class” 400 runner, so you are arguing with the wind, per usual.
Nobody is reinforcing your nonsensical logic. If he is worth 1.4 sec faster over 400 than he was a year ago, it’s simply because he was a 1:46 runner when he ran 46.3. Now he is a 1:42 runner. So that commensurate, hypothetical improvement in the 400 has already happened, even if he hasn’t contested the event since his one appearance last May. This just isn’t difficult to comprehend.
Whatever man, I’m done refuting your BS.
He knows all this. He just hates young runners, as in teen prodigies, never mind his boiling hate and dislike of Americans - and a general dislike of “non-Empire” athletes in general.