USATF Permanently Bans Saratoga Springs Coached Art & Lina Kranick (and Art died a month ago)

True. They seem silly. But, this is why those NOT on their team do not show love to these coaches. I posted this to help those on the team who loved them to understand the non-love. Missing in this debate is an early 1990s report that saratoga schools commissioned and they ignored. In short, a legend from Hamilton college studied saratoga's program and basically said it was too much for the hs level. Think little league vs. Travel baseball. Pick one. Attention hs athletic directors....don't allow the hs xc and track and field coach also coach a club team for same level athletes! It creates issues. It always has created issues! Baseball, soccer, and other sports have rules against this for good reason.

in 1994, the district hired Dr. Eugene Long to study the track and field program. That summer, he told the district that the practices were too long, that the students should not be running year-round. Boom. There is your smoking gun folks. The district allowed it. Anyone with permanent injury should sue immediately.

1. The Kranicks were great coaches and banned for accusations from decades ago.

2. Obviously tarnishes their legacy and is being used by people with agendas to go after current Saratoga Springs High School administrators "who let this happen." In this type of environment who would want to be a coach? Or have their kids run on the team?

Everyone knows that part. But was the club used to compete in USATF or AAU meets? Were there fees to join the club? Was this a way to make money for the Kranicks or were they doing this because they really wanted to win?

People are passing judgement on them but I want to see the full picture. Was this a business to them or was it something they truly devoted their time and passion (that probably crossed a few lines) to making this team successful.

See Nicole Blood's interview in post #80. Around 11:45 he specifically asks her about their summer training with the club. At 10:00 she talks training on cold weather days.

I Don't have all answers but I studied the club/program to try to beat them. Love your handle name!

1) Did it cost to be a member of Kinetic?

They had fundraisers. A local shoe store deal; national sponsorship for apparel; they worked the Saratoga county fair parking lot. They had a partnership with the city of Saratoga to do a free summer run program.

2) What if you were a fast runner for Saratoga and couldn't afford the fees?

See above. Virtually no cost for the program. Saratoga springs is also a rich school district. Few would have issues paying.

3) What if your family couldn't transport you to club practices every day?

Car pools were done. Linda would transport some runners home as needed (see many articles out there where this was stated by Linda herself).

4) Did they really practice 365 days a year?

No. They had christmas off. Also, if you went on vacation, you obviously did not have practice. It was clearly expected that you run during summer vacation. Athletes on college visits had a break. While rare, some would be on vacation during christmas week.

5) Did Kinetic participate in USATF or AAU meets?

Mostly usatf meets though this waned over time once nxn, and new balance indoor/outdoor nationals meets grew. They also did footlocker xc qualifier every year until it conflicted with nxn regional qualifier.

6) Were there other costs for uniforms or travel?

I do not know the answer here. They did trips is all I know. They often had very nice coach buses or "party bus" for special meets. Someone paid for it. Most other schools car pooled or drove their own kid.

7) I'm trying to see if Kinetic was a money grab or if it was truly intended as a training and competition mechanism for Saratoga Springs.

Absolutely not a money grab. This was "coaches go wild" type of scene. They got good quick because most did not dedicate themselves to the craft as them. They hit the travel sports boom at a time (and sport) that most ignored. They loved their athletes even if methods were militaristic/football-esque.

8) There's other local teams that operate clubs and charge significant fees and there's no ROI in those programs. I know there's a team that charges $425 for a six week summer program and also has another coach that charges $175/month for coaching services.

Yup. New England Elite is a high quality club program with transparent costs born by families who want something extra for their kid. This is the way to do it. If you want more than normal for hs, then pay for it. It happens much more for all other sports.

IMO, the kranicks don't get into this mess if they had a pay to play club program geared for 10th grade and higher for off season work, or 4th to 6th grade for development work from the beginning. Instead, it went way too deep that does not fit with nysphsaa philosophy to allow the scholastic athlete to develop at their pace - not fill voids left by broken/injured upper class distance runners.

9) What is people's opinion on high school teams operating these youth clubs on the side? It seems odd to me. My kids competed against youth clubs in the NYC area and I don't think any of them had a direct link to a specific high school program.

Great question. You need balance. Those that do hs coaching and club coaching are not balanced. So....there you go. In NYC, I don't see many quality hs distance runners who were truly coached by their hs. I recall nearly all had a side coach, club coach, or parent coach.

In summary, the commitment and love to athletes by kranicks was unmatched. Those that disagree can easily point to vitamins, food control, and tying to car as major red flags. Missing is any understanding of the mental control because we were not there. But, those on the outside like me for 15 years noticed the little things.

Little things were:

1) separate tent from entire meet setup

2) never traveled to state xc with free section 2 bus

3) clearly told to NOT talk to competition

4) unsportsmanlike behavior to take away states spots year after year. They had super qualifier times but still ran at State quals to beat you. Why? Then, you cannot possibly beat them at State.

5) very little true and authentic communication with other coaches. Why the divide in such a sport as track and field and xc?

6) elitist attitude - sure you are great....but at what cost?

I can’t find any thing about kinetic (never registered as a non-profit) but when art retired as a teacher he was making 100k. I saw something that after thy retired teaching they were paid 35k/year each to coach

Ignorant comment. Did you read the report? There were complaints filed from 2-4 years ago. “It was decades ago”. If you’re going to speak, at least know what you’re talking about. Are we really defending abusing kids just to win? Some of you people are insane.

most serious coaches and runners i know are with each other all year long. not physically with each other, but working off a plan during vacations, from home, etc. Mostly setup through captains practices over summer, and time with the coaches once or twice per week. obviously on a volunteer basis.

serious runners who do not have serious coaches find help elsewhere.

between cross, indoor and outdoor, i make around 17k per year to coach. and i know some coaches who do much better than me (also some who do worse). so 35k isn't that surprising, though very much on the high end. given that they're from a wealthy district and a wealthier area, it would make sense that coaching pay is higher .

I guess I’m hanging around with the poor districts that pay like 5k/ season max so 35k is a lot especially on top of teacher salary/benifits

You’re also going to get more honest reports from former students who are out of college. If I was running for a ncaa program I’d be worried a Kranick would call my coach and ruin my career and potentially my degree if I was on scholarship.

Then as you mature and get your own agency you’re gonna realize maybe this wasn’t right what they did to us especially as you have kids of your own in other programs.

I saw a line where a former runner was real hesitant to let their kid run because they only knew what the Kranicks did to them and was relieved to see their kid’s coach wasn’t like that

The FM middle school XC program always has lots of people in it, but many of them end up choosing not to do FM high school XC because they don’t want to be part of the Stotan program

Yes!!! This is exactly what this needs to be! It needs to be an informed choice to enter the gauntlet of year round varsity runners especially for families of 11 year old girls! Boys isn't as much of an issue due to testosterone impact on rapid physical development and strength equaling massive performance gains. For girls, they hit puberty often around that 11-12 year old range and are briefly exceptionally fast with longer limbs, larger lungs, and heart.

It is simply wrong to fill varsity rosters consistently with 7th to 9th graders. Most are not emotionally ready for demands of varsity sport and year round intense running.

Race/train at your level. Perhaps if you are a 15 year old 9th grader, then fine....you are eligible for varsity. I think this is the solution. You must turn 15 years old during the calendar year to do varsity sport of any kind. Otherwise, you remain as JV, freshman, or modified. Sure, create an exception. But, must be approved by athletic director. Then, if any injuries/issues, it is district administration that is held to account. Nys has a system but not tough enough with an age standard for varsity level.

The selective classification system is too easy in NYS. Our class D school was able to pull up 2-4 girls each xc season on like a 15 person roster.

The reason some modified kids didnt continue on is because the former modified coach was just bad. Didnt encourage kids to commit. A new modified coach started in the fall and did great. If you look at results from last year’s xc season, the top 7-8 kids on the modified team are now racing on the varsity. Also, the varsity training is not overly intense. Mileage is low and very responsible. Sounds like they didnt get scared away by the Stotan theme.

This thread is not about FM, but if we are going to go there let’s discuss the differences. FM trains 6 days per week not 7, doesnt tie kids to cars, doesnt do mass vitamin infusions, trains kids responsibly, teaches healthy living and eating habits, has a caring and knowledgable coach with legendary success, actually stops kids from competing or training at all if they arent living in a healthy way. And had the misfortune of a “journalist” duping a weak and messed up young woman with an unstable homelife to go on the record in a BS hit piece to blame all of life’s problems on her running experience at FM. The other girl literally admitted that her eating disorder started before she ran on the varsity team and before she knew the coach. And then she praised her coach for stopping her from racing when he found out about it.

4-5k per season is generally the reality of my area as well. I'm told that the coaches who are 60-90 mins from us are more in the area of 7-8k per season.

yes and there are people who pass through it who I don't believe are actually passing the tests.

Not that I believe the tests are in tune with the realities of our sports.

for example, ive seen it where a middle school girl can throw a shot put and discus easily into varsity all-star levels, but can't pass the tests, so stays down in modified. it's something that just isn't consistent from district to district. And what the test asks for ignores the differing demands of different sports/events.

I had to go back to review the goals because it’s been 25 years since I knew them but having them based on the presidential fitness test doesn’t accurately reflect the goal of the process. Like you said, it’s not sport dependent and easily trainable especially for someone that is being pushed to run. You just need to be kinda decent at sit-ups, flexibility, a mile time and a shuttle run. it’s 100% geared towards young women that are ready to be exploited by a xc/track program.