Everyone in the ARC and Midwest probably wondered why Central ran the schedule they did. They seemed to be relying on beating Wartburg late in the season to get in and didn't have the 3, 4 and 5 runners to do that. Not running Augustana was a mistake, for sure.
I don't think beating Wartburg would have helped them. There's no push rule in D3, so head-to-head competition with those already in the field and then those under consideration are the top criteria, so beating Wartburg would only benefit them if no one qualified under those two criteria. Central beating Wartburg likely would prevented them both getting in.
Would be curious if the committee ever even considered them? They basically gave themselves zero chance of team qualifying under this format. Weird racing decision.
why did eau claire make it before Bates? I don't understand why you'd put in a team with fewer wins based off some common opponents tiebreaker. I know why they make it subjective but the D1 and D2 systems are better in that they're objective and formula based
Swarthmore was likely above Bates due to Paul Short since the committee disregarded wins. If you include Rose-Hulman over Bates due to head-to-head, you have to go Swarthmore over Bates as well. First team out was either Swarthmore or Oshkosh. You're right though that the D1 system would have qualified Bates.
Oshkosh's races this year: beat Eau Claire and Whitewater at Blugold, beat Rose-Hulman at Augustana (lost by 6 to Eau Claire and 77 to Whitewater), beat Eau Claire and tied (lost on tiebreaker) to Whitewater at WIACs. That's 4 (almost 5) wins against nationally qualified teams.
One lesson learned from this year is that the committee definitely values that regional result very highly. Regional point gap had to have eliminated Oshkosh. Common opponents and regional point gap are definitely more important relatively important than I had thought. And wins against already selected teams isn't really important. The process is also clearly subjective.
Agreed the committee should publish the reasoning!!!!!!!
The committe literally presented the selection process to the coaching body at convention two years ago and made notes available. Coaches should have no excuse for not creating an optimal schedule for the qualifying based on the strengths of their squad. Not leaving the a region for points of comparison or performing poorly at the multi region meets are a death knell.
They got to be thinking about a leadership change in that organization. How long has it been since they won the Long Short? Until the Devils can start winning races consistently they will continue to loose the recruiting battle to Swarthmore and Haverford. Catching Johns Hopkins? Forget about it. It won’t be long until McDaniel overtakes them in the championship.
I have been watching DIII XC for a LONG time. I have witnessed greatness in Bobby Over, I have seen dominance, I have seen excellence in its PUREST FORM. But THIS—this Dickinson cross-country team right here? This is an ABOMINATION. An ABSOLUTE TRAVESTY. I’ve seen joggers on the CVRT with more urgency. Let me tell you something right now: I watched this team “compete” yesterday and I’m using that word VERY loosely. They weren’t running—they were participating in some sort of leisurely FALL SCENIC TOUR. People out there taking in the foliage like they’re on a Sunday stroll! You’re supposed to be RACING. You’re supposed to be OUT THERE leaving your SOUL on the Alex Strenta Memorial Mile! Instead, I’m seeing athletes who look like they peaked right after Little Three! This is unacceptable. I need HEART. I need HUSTLE. I need a coach that’s gonna look in the mirror and say, “I REFUSE to let this team be a national embarrassment.” Because right now? The only thing this team is running up is my BLOOD PRESSURE! Do better. PLEASE. For the sake of competition, for the sake of the sport, and for the sake of my SANITY.
Swarthmore was likely above Bates due to Paul Short since the committee disregarded wins. If you include Rose-Hulman over Bates due to head-to-head, you have to go Swarthmore over Bates as well. First team out was either Swarthmore or Oshkosh. You're right though that the D1 system would have qualified Bates.
Oshkosh's races this year: beat Eau Claire and Whitewater at Blugold, beat Rose-Hulman at Augustana (lost by 6 to Eau Claire and 77 to Whitewater), beat Eau Claire and tied (lost on tiebreaker) to Whitewater at WIACs. That's 4 (almost 5) wins against nationally qualified teams.
One lesson learned from this year is that the committee definitely values that regional result very highly. Regional point gap had to have eliminated Oshkosh. Common opponents and regional point gap are definitely more important relatively important than I had thought. And wins against already selected teams isn't really important. The process is also clearly subjective.
Agreed the committee should publish the reasoning!!!!!!!
The committe literally presented the selection process to the coaching body at convention two years ago and made notes available. Coaches should have no excuse for not creating an optimal schedule for the qualifying based on the strengths of their squad. Not leaving the a region for points of comparison or performing poorly at the multi region meets are a death knell.
This nationals field has 25 of the 32 teams from last year.
Lebanon Valley qualifies for the first time in school history.
Rose-Hulman qualifies for the first time since 2014, UW-Platteville since 2015 and TCNJ since 2016.
Calvin misses out for the first time since 1992. Emory misses for the first time since 2012, and John Carroll since 2018. Really crazy that Calvin's first miss in so long wasn't competitive.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
The Mid Atlantic getting more than one is laughable. Lebanon Valley wouldn’t be top 6 in the Midwest or North.
If you understand how the selection process works, doubtful LVC was anywhere near being a bubble team. Tons of wins on the board relatively early. The only thing laughable is your lack of understanding.
I don't think the Northern teams will struggle. It will be upper 50's and close to 60 at the North Region meet. It will even be low 50's at the Niagara Region meet. Historically it has been around 20's to 30's or lower at these meets, I do not believe this will have such a great effect as some might think. What do we think of the course tho? I haven't heard or seen much about it.
Good question about the course. I have heard it is mostly flat with maybe a short steep hill, although I don’t know when it comes in the race. And footing is supposed to be rough (uneven, roots, etc — can roll an ankle). This is all hearsay though so would be nice to get opinions of anyone who has actually seen or run it.
This is mostly correct, there is a rooty section before mile 1 but otherwise the footing is pretty good for cross country. Steep hill to finish, some gentle rollers for the rest, it's never really flat
I have been watching DIII XC for a LONG time. I have witnessed greatness in Bobby Over, I have seen dominance, I have seen excellence in its PUREST FORM. But THIS—this Dickinson cross-country team right here? This is an ABOMINATION. An ABSOLUTE TRAVESTY. I’ve seen joggers on the CVRT with more urgency. Let me tell you something right now: I watched this team “compete” yesterday and I’m using that word VERY loosely. They weren’t running—they were participating in some sort of leisurely FALL SCENIC TOUR. People out there taking in the foliage like they’re on a Sunday stroll! You’re supposed to be RACING. You’re supposed to be OUT THERE leaving your SOUL on the Alex Strenta Memorial Mile! Instead, I’m seeing athletes who look like they peaked right after Little Three! This is unacceptable. I need HEART. I need HUSTLE. I need a coach that’s gonna look in the mirror and say, “I REFUSE to let this team be a national embarrassment.” Because right now? The only thing this team is running up is my BLOOD PRESSURE! Do better. PLEASE. For the sake of competition, for the sake of the sport, and for the sake of my SANITY.
I wonder what it would take for Jamie Norton to come out of retirement. He could help. He ran a 4:06 mile.
My son, 4:06 miler Jamie Norton, who runs the mile in 4:06, will be coming out of retirement this weekend to lead the Tufts Jumbos to victory. He will use his 4:06 mile speed to outkick the field and win individually, and his veteran leadership and 4:06 mile time will inspire the rest of the team to finish 2-7.
Does the committee publish their reasoning? I know the D1 football/basketball committee is always interviewed after the fact. Would love to hear why they valued teams going to big meets and doing just okay versus teams more. Also curious about how impactful Suffolk's trip to BluGold was on their qualifying and things like that. I would think that would help coaches schedule in the future.
It honestly seems like the last few teams on the bubble were all about the same. We haven't seen any of the "we got hosed" posts for a reason.
Based on rankings (which don't play into selection), the men's side played out pretty true to form with everyone ranked getting in. One the Women's side, ranked Central (#24) and Coast Guard (#29) did not advance. Coast Guard had a lot of W's during the season, so not sure what kept them out. Central oddly didn't race anyone outside the region. They could have picked up tons of points if they went to Augustana, but for some reason when to a different meet and didn't have a resume besides being close to Wartburg which probably cost them a trip as a team
Over on the NESCAC women's thread, I took a stab at divining the Coast Guard women snub:
Coast Guard (6th in the Mideast Regional) not getting an NCAA invite is insightful. At Paul Short, they beat Wesleyan, RPI, Brandeis; lost to Amherst. At Conn College Invite, they beat Amherst; lost to Brandeis and Bowdoin. The committee seemed to put more emphasis on the Conn College Invite, which was more recent than Paul Short. They snubbed Coast Guard, but invited Brandeis and Bowdoin.
To invite Bowdoin to the NCAAs, the committee had to include Suffolk U. who upset Bowdoin at the East Regional.
Good question about the course. I have heard it is mostly flat with maybe a short steep hill, although I don’t know when it comes in the race. And footing is supposed to be rough (uneven, roots, etc — can roll an ankle). This is all hearsay though so would be nice to get opinions of anyone who has actually seen or run it.
This is mostly correct, there is a rooty section before mile 1 but otherwise the footing is pretty good for cross country. Steep hill to finish, some gentle rollers for the rest, it's never really flat
Not topographically challenging but some wrong-way pitched turns, lots of woodchips to cover up roots which suck to run on, overall relatively flat but rarely actually flat, hard to truly get into a rhythm but won't break anybody
This is mostly correct, there is a rooty section before mile 1 but otherwise the footing is pretty good for cross country. Steep hill to finish, some gentle rollers for the rest, it's never really flat
Not topographically challenging but some wrong-way pitched turns, lots of woodchips to cover up roots which suck to run on, overall relatively flat but rarely actually flat, hard to truly get into a rhythm but won't break anybody
Yep, well said. I think it's a fair course, and should be very spectator friendly. As a local, am very excited to get out and watch on Saturday. Who should I root for?