Why do Christians believe you go to hell if you don't accept Jesus?

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

The Israelites believed that the Messiah was going to be a new King David figure who would expel the Romans and establish the Kingdom of God right there on earth in the Levant. The word Messiah comes from the ceremony of anointing their king with oils. This King David connection is why, even though Jesus was from Nazareth, a connection of his birth occurring in Bethlehem was invented to associate him with David. There never was a census that mandated that people go to their ancestral homes as depicted in the Nativity tale.

In the decades that followed Jesus’ execution, the fact that the Romans were still there and that the Kingdom of God hadn’t been established there, the message changed from an earthly kingdom to a heavenly one. This can be seen in the stark differences from the synoptic gospels and the Gospel of John, the only one in which Jesus claims divinity and where the kingdom “above” is referenced.

Reifying an Abstract wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

This is the most basic, simplistic line of thought. Dehumanization can occur in any society. The Catholics in the Ustaze murdered 300,000 non-Catholics in the Balkans in the 20th Century. Where was their morality?

The reason I am kind to others and don’t hurt people or wish to see them hurt is not because I think I am under constant threat of eternal damnation but because I know we’re all in this together and want to give a good example of cooperation and decency to my fellow man. Try to find fault with that.

Right, we understand why you think what you think, it's just completely illogical and there is fault with it. Please provide a reason you should not be completely self-interested rather than "be a good example of cooperation." The only two reasons you could reasonably given to be a "good example" is 1) You think that being a good example is a nice thing to do because you were given the gift of life without asking for it, so you feel a debt to your "fellow man" for taking care of you when you were an infant. Of course according to your own atheistic worldview the only real knowledge is what empirical science says is real so this feeling is just a feeling and completely illogical and not real knowledge and thus you are contradicting yourself. 2) You think that if you act badly instead of being a "good example" other people will treat you poorly in response and you don't want to be treated poorly so you are actually acting for self reasons (a la Hobbes) so you really aren't a "good person" for doing what you are doing.

Father Fuentes Interview wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

The Israelites believed that the Messiah was going to be a new King David figure who would expel the Romans and establish the Kingdom of God right there on earth in the Levant. The word Messiah comes from the ceremony of anointing their king with oils. This King David connection is why, even though Jesus was from Nazareth, a connection of his birth occurring in Bethlehem was invented to associate him with David. There never was a census that mandated that people go to their ancestral homes as depicted in the Nativity tale.

In the decades that followed Jesus’ execution, the fact that the Romans were still there and that the Kingdom of God hadn’t been established there, the message changed from an earthly kingdom to a heavenly one. This can be seen in the stark differences from the synoptic gospels and the Gospel of John, the only one in which Jesus claims divinity and where the kingdom “above” is referenced.

Yes the Israelites expected an earthly king. That's why most of them did not follow the early Christians into the new Church/Covenant.

Never a census that mandated a return to their ancestral home? I never heard that. How do you know? And the association with both David and Bethlehem was not cobbled together later, both were prophecized.

The first prophecy of a savior happened at the time of the fall of our first parents. Obviously that was not related to a future earthly king, but future reunion with God. How would an earthly king resolve the tragedy of the loss of union with God?

In Josephus' account of the census in 6 C.E., he explicitly states that those people taxed were assessed of their possessions, including lands and livestock. In other words, the census takers were also the tax assessors. In Egypt these tax assessors went from house to house in order to perform their duties. With this in mind, let us look at a crucial error in Luke's account. Luke has Joseph and Mary making a three-day journey away from their home in Nazareth to register in their alleged ancestral home Bethlehem. But an Egyptian papyrus recording a census in 104 C.E. explicitly states that "since registration by household is imminent, it is necessary to notify all who for any reason are absent from their districts to return to their own homes that they may carry out the ordinary business of registration...."6 Unlike Matthew, who does not mention a census nor Nazareth as Mary and Joseph's home, Luke describes Nazareth as "their own city" (Lk. 2:39). If the rules of this Egyptian census applied to Palestine, then Joseph and Mary should have stayed in Nazareth to be enrolled.

Imagine a system of taxation based on people returning to their ancestral homes, going back a thousand years in the case of Joseph. By this time the Jews were spread out all over the known world. Can we seriously believe that the Romans would have required them to come back to Palestine, carrying everything they owned? How would the tax officials have assessed their land? In The Rise of Christianity the former Bishop E. W. Barnes remarks: "The Romans were a practical race, skilled in the art of government. It is incredible that they should have taken a census according to such a fantastic system. If any such census had been taken, the dislocation to which it would have led would have been world-wide. Roman historians would not have failed to record it."7

Kneebuchadnezzarine wrote:

not even a runner wrote:

What does it mean to "treat people fairly"? That seems nebulous to me and could vary greatly from person to person.

I suppose those three words are nebulous in context, and yes that could and does vary from person to person. Nonetheless, I treat people fairly, and I don't feel commanded or even advised to do so by the Bible or any other holy authority. You, on the other hand, either (1) don't treat people fairly because you don't know what it means to do so, or (2) have to consult a holy book to figure out what's fair every time you have a relatively complex encounter with another person.

And WHY is theft wrong? What if someone is starving and has to steal to survive? What if a person steals from a wealthy entity to give that money to the poor? Without a foundational of morality, subjectivity of perspective allows a lot of leeway for deviation.

You tell me. What does the "foundational of morality" that you referenced (I assume you mean the Bible) say about whether theft is wrong and the two other hypothetical situations you typed?

I think theft is wrong. I'm not going to go thieving stuff from people today. The reason I'm not going to do that is because I consider it unfair to others. I don't know how much thieving you do or don't do, but I hope it is little or none because you also consider it unfair to others.

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Father Fuentes Interview wrote:

Yes the Israelites expected an earthly king. That's why most of them did not follow the early Christians into the new Church/Covenant.

Never a census that mandated a return to their ancestral home? I never heard that. How do you know? And the association with both David and Bethlehem was not cobbled together later, both were prophecized.

The first prophecy of a savior happened at the time of the fall of our first parents. Obviously that was not related to a future earthly king, but future reunion with God. How would an earthly king resolve the tragedy of the loss of union with God?

From “God, Reason, and the Evangelicals”

In Josephus' account of the census in 6 C.E., he explicitly states that those people taxed were assessed of their possessions, including lands and livestock. In other words, the census takers were also the tax assessors. In Egypt these tax assessors went from house to house in order to perform their duties. With this in mind, let us look at a crucial error in Luke's account. Luke has Joseph and Mary making a three-day journey away from their home in Nazareth to register in their alleged ancestral home Bethlehem. But an Egyptian papyrus recording a census in 104 C.E. explicitly states that "since registration by household is imminent, it is necessary to notify all who for any reason are absent from their districts to return to their own homes that they may carry out the ordinary business of registration...."6 Unlike Matthew, who does not mention a census nor Nazareth as Mary and Joseph's home, Luke describes Nazareth as "their own city" (Lk. 2:39). If the rules of this Egyptian census applied to Palestine, then Joseph and Mary should have stayed in Nazareth to be enrolled.

Imagine a system of taxation based on people returning to their ancestral homes, going back a thousand years in the case of Joseph. By this time the Jews were spread out all over the known world. Can we seriously believe that the Romans would have required them to come back to Palestine, carrying everything they owned? How would the tax officials have assessed their land? In The Rise of Christianity the former Bishop E. W. Barnes remarks: "The Romans were a practical race, skilled in the art of government. It is incredible that they should have taken a census according to such a fantastic system. If any such census had been taken, the dislocation to which it would have led would have been world-wide. Roman historians would not have failed to record it."7

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

55 YO wrote:

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

I agree with your first paragraph. However, I do not agree with your interpretation of the Second Coming. I won't delve into it here, but I will just say that I do not agree that Jesus will ever set foot on the Earth again. Yes, He will return to take the faithful to heaven, but Paul wrote that we will meet Him in the sky (not on land).

55 YO wrote:

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

I agree with your first paragraph. However, I do not agree with your interpretation of the Second Coming. I won't delve into it here, but I will just say that I do not agree that Jesus will ever set foot on the Earth again. Yes, He will return to take the faithful to heaven, but Paul wrote that we will meet Him in the sky (not on land).

not even a runner wrote:

Kneebuchadnezzarine wrote:

I suppose those three words are nebulous in context, and yes that could and does vary from person to person. Nonetheless, I treat people fairly, and I don't feel commanded or even advised to do so by the Bible or any other holy authority. You, on the other hand, either (1) don't treat people fairly because you don't know what it means to do so, or (2) have to consult a holy book to figure out what's fair every time you have a relatively complex encounter with another person.

You tell me. What does the "foundational of morality" that you referenced (I assume you mean the Bible) say about whether theft is wrong and the two other hypothetical situations you typed?

I think theft is wrong. I'm not going to go thieving stuff from people today. The reason I'm not going to do that is because I consider it unfair to others. I don't know how much thieving you do or don't do, but I hope it is little or none because you also consider it unfair to others.

I'm not arguing for or against a Biblical code of ethics. I am simply pointing out that without an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power, all morality must be considered subjective. Concepts such as something being wrong or unfair are completely open to the interpretation of the individual. Society has laws that attempt to limit actions that could prove disruptive to a peaceful society, but laws, although often in line with religious beliefs, do not dictate morality.

Raddison wrote:

Father Fuentes Interview wrote:

Unfortunately there are no details explaining why they were required to return to Bethlehem - such as how long they lived in Nazareth or whether different areas had different rules. The belief that they were not required to return is not something that can be proved. The reference to them being from the line of David seems to indicate an Israelite rule.

Really??? The whole census business was just a means of force fitting Jesus into the Messiah prophecies. Being born in Nazareth would mean either the prophecies were wrong or Jesus was not the Messiah. The simple fix is to come up with a reason to have Jesus born in Bethlehem.

Can you list any government decree, from any nation, from any time period that has forced its citizens to return to their ancestral birthplace?

Put another way, if the USA were to apply these rules to the next census then every White, Black, Hispanic and Asian would have to leave the USA as their ancestral homelands are not the USA. Remember King Davis was born 1000 years before Christ. Where were your ancestors living 1000 years ago?

Alternatively, if the government required that they return to their first ancestral
location in the USA then Ellis Island would sink under the weight as more than 40% (over 100 million) of all living Americans can trace their roots to an ancestor who came through Ellis Island.

55 YO wrote:

Big JC Fan wrote:

From a Christian perspective, about 30% of the Bible is considered prophecy (God foretelling future events through Jesus and the prophets of Israel). Almost all of that prophecy is about the first and second coming of Jesus. The first coming happened. Like, IT HAPPENED. Muslims even believe Jesus existed, they just don't believe he is God. Jews believe he existed, but many rejected him as their Messiah, and they murdered him.
The Old Testament prophecy was correct and the first coming happened. The second coming of Jesus could very well happen soon and here are four (of many) reasons why I believe that:

1.) In Revelation, much of that book made zero sense 100 years ago. Jews back in Israel, rebuilt temple, abomination of desolation where the antichrist proclaims himself to be God in the Holy of Holies. May 14, 1948, the world takes sympathy on the post-WW2 surviving Jews and allows them to return to their homeland, after nearly 2000 years since the Roman's destroyed the nation of Israel in AD 70, scattering them all over the Roman empire. USA President Harry Truman was the first world leader to recognize Israel as a nation again in 1948. That's HUGE! End times prophecy can't happen without the Jewish people back in Israel. Isaiah 66:8... God said he would bring forth a nation in one day, and he did, miraculously.

2.) Also in Revelation, it says the two witnesses (who proclaim the gospel to the WHOLE WORLD during the 7-year tribulation) will be killed and their bodies will lie in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days while the WHOLE WORLD will see them. Up until ~15 years ago, this wasn't possible! Now with smart phones (which almost the whole world has now) we can literally all see the same thing, at the same time. Another few years, or decades, and everyone on the planet will have a smart phone and/or computer. Revelation 11:9 didn't make sense at any point in human history until the last few years!!!

3.) Jesus talked about His return a lot in the gospels. He said we wouldn't know the day or the hour BUT He also said we can tell the signs of the times. Matthew 24:32 - Like when a fig tree produces buds, you know spring is near... in the same way when these things occur, you know the end is near. Plagues, earthquakes, famines, etc, ("these things" Jesus referenced) have been happening for all of human history BUT Jesus said, like a woman close to giving birth, the signs will intensify and get closer together as we near the end, like labor pains. Folks, look around! It's happening! Get off letsrun. Get off social media. Get unbusy with work. Get unbusy obsessing over your kids, and sports, and whatever other vice you have. Repent, and live a life committed to God. If you've already repented and put your faith in Jesus, do as Jesus said in Luke 21:28, look up, lift up your head, because your redemption draws near. For thousands of years humanity has longed for perfection. Perfection is coming! That is VERY exciting.

4.) Jesus said the last days would be like the days of Lot and Noah. Read the accounts of Lot and Noah in the Bible.. Genesis, I believe. READ THEM, for real! Sounds like today's world. Before God flooded the earth in Noah's day, he said violence and immorality filled the earth. Hello! I'm 35. When I was 9, Columbine happened. First major school shooting in US history. Everyone was shocked. Now it's common news, and we've become numb to it a little. Before God destroyed Lot's town of Sodom (and Gomorrah, a neighboring town) he visited them. The people of the town were absolutely overtaken with sexual immorality. Lot, the only "righteous" person in town, offered his daughters to the love drunk community people so they could have sex with them instead of the visiting angels! (Lot was counted as righteous because of his FAITH in God, not because of his owns works... we're all going to hell if we rely on our own strength to save us. Lot had issues for sure). You can't deny it... OUR WORLD TODAY IS PROGRESSIVELY BECOMMING MORE VIOLENT AND IMMORAL. FAST. Technology has changed this. Kids playing violent video games, numbing their emotions towards death and violence. Sex, a few clicks away on a phone or computer. 100 years ago in this country, people dropped out of high school to get married and stay married for 75 years! Now it's common practice to have 10+ sexual partners before we halfway commit to one, all the while still looking on social media for a better replacement.
Lot and Noah, counted as righteous because of their FAITH, were rescued from God's wrath. In the book of Revelation, the apostle John prophesizes about a future wrath God will pour out on humanity. (7-year Tribulation) It's not a pretty picture BUT there is hope for those who have FAITH in Jesus. I write this out of LOVE for the non-believer, atheist, or skeptic who has read this far.... God loves you too! He put it on my heart to share this. He did that because HE LOVES YOU. If all powerful Jesus just showed up next to you right now and said, "hey I'm real dude", it would be really easy to believe in Him. In fact, it would take no faith at all. You saw him. Maybe he even does a miracle. Or 100. (What's crazy is that people saw miracles 2000 years ago in Israel and still didn't believe He was God) FAITH IS BELIEVING IN SOMETHING YOU CAN'T SEE. Even though he performed miracles in front of them, they couldn't SEE He was God for sure.

God truly shows he genuinely loves us by giving us a FREE WILL. You decide if you want to have faith or not. If your faith isn't in God, it's in something else, likely yourself and your own reasoning (Pride). God said, "pride comes before the fall." Good luck when a.) you die or b.) the tribulation starts! If you're a non-believer and you want to.... be saved, or at least cover your bases in case you're reasoning is wrong, the Bible says, "confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, and you will be saved." Bingo. Just do it. Nobody even has to know! ALTHOUGH, if you make that committment, I encourage you to find a Bible believing church and GROW IN YOUR FAITH! It's so awesome! You'll love the newfound hope, peace, and joy you find from truly surrendering your life and circumstances to an all-powerful, all-loving God.

I agree with your first paragraph. However, I do not agree with your interpretation of the Second Coming. I won't delve into it here, but I will just say that I do not agree that Jesus will ever set foot on the Earth again. Yes, He will return to take the faithful to heaven, but Paul wrote that we will meet Him in the sky (not on land).

Kneebuchadnezzarine wrote:

not even a runner wrote:

I'm not arguing for or against a Biblical code of ethics. I am simply pointing out that without an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power, all morality must be considered subjective. Concepts such as something being wrong or unfair are completely open to the interpretation of the individual. Society has laws that attempt to limit actions that could prove disruptive to a peaceful society, but laws, although often in line with religious beliefs, do not dictate morality.

You can't even figure out if theft is wrong, and now you're arguing this?

Well, "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power" sound pretty subjective to me. Which higher power's code of ethics? What is in and what is not in the higher power ethics code? Which one of his many ethics codes and how much of it should be adopted? Oral/verbal ethics codes handed down from the higher power or only written ones? How do we know what the ethics codes cover? How many ethical code judges and administrators will we need to determine what the codes cover? How do we know this ethics code originated from a higher power, rather than just being relayed to us as legend? The answers to those questions and many more are all saturated with awful degrees of subjectivity.

Do you have an example of a society that follows "an agreed upon code of ethics that originates from a higher power"? They only ones I can think of are Iran and Taliban Afghanistan. Yes, their morality is arguably objective, but both places are total sh!tholes.