The study you presented was limited to track athletes (also 13 years old) which are known to have suppressed T due to training. The smoking gun you have is the phrase "close to". That won't work.
no known genetic or biological trait provides a better explanation than levels of testosterone for the 10–20% advantage that male athletes have over female athletes. But females athletes advantage over their sedentary peers are just "what-evs"
The present data suggest that endogenous androgens are associated with a more anabolic body composition and enhanced performance in women athletes. These results are of importance for the current discussion regarding hyperand...
It's easier than changing your name. Seriously. You need proof of nothing. You can show up at the passport office, all 6'4" inch of your burly bearded man self dressed as a lumberjack, and have your sex changed to female.
First of all, she was assigned female at birth, and has always been a woman. She's been s boxer for years. She is not pretending to be a man. Second, nine women have beaten her. Third, the boxing association never sent any tests to the IOC. so everyone is basing their statements on eyeballing her and determining that she's a man. I'm not saying that she should or shouldn't be permitted to be on the women's category. I don't know and neither do you. Info about her biology is unavailable to us.
Finally, there are always gonna be marginal cases. No matter where you draw the line, there will always be someone who is close to the line. Y'all really need to get a grip on yourselves because there's always gonna someone you don't consider a woman running with the women. And certainly she is not an imposter.
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
Well we know it not a trans issues since Algeria is even more transphobic than US conservatives and the founders of Letsrun.com . Trans and Gay people are put to death in Algeria..................
Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in Algeria face legal challenges and discrimination not experienced by non-LGBT residents. According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association's May 2008 report, bo...
So the Algerians champion this person and consider her a female.
Would it ne nice is the right wing republican Christians in the US and Muslim right wingers from Arab countries like Algeria could just sat down and discussed this issue. I am sure they could find some common ground LMAO!
Thank goodness distance running has started in the Olympics and Letsrun.com can stop posting stupid threads like this!
So sorry Letsrun world this is not a trans issue so you don't get to beat up on them this time. However, don't fret, high school cross country will be here in a couple of months and you can start beating up on some trans kids in the fall to start your new year off on the "right" foot :) .
first of all. We all know you are a bigot. Those are the receipts. You are the JK Rowling of this board, using your gender as a means to hate.
I'll admit I was being sensational with with my statement. But I was talking about vs. the general population. First of all your study was limited to track, so those are "receipts". Secondly, stress suppresses testosterone. Third "close to" is not a definitive statement
"Top performing female athletes are more likely to have naturally occurring higher testosterone levels" I would guess that Olympic athletes are generally considered elite
"The researchers show that top female athletes are more likely to have higher testosterone levels and mild disorders, as well as more severe and rarer conditions that increase testosterone levels"
"Moreover, it has been demonstrated that women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) are overrepresented in elite athletes."
Oh good grief. The document you linked to like it's a big "gotcha" is a press release for a talk - "Setting fair regulations for top female athletes that have naturally higher testosterone levels" - given in May 2019 in the wake of the CAS decision in the Caster Semenya case.
Although the talk is billed as being about testosterone levels in "top female athletes" and "women," in fact it's about testosterone levels in athletes of both sexes who compete and have competed in in the female category. Including XY DSD athletes like Semenya who have so-called "high natural testosterone" because they have a set of fully-developed testes in good working order which pump out the massive amounts of testosterone customary for males and put their natural serum T levels squarely in the in the normal male range.
The talk, and the work it's based, are both flawed and misleading because they lump together two very different groups:
1) XY male athletes in women's sports who have male-only DSDs like Semenya and Dutee Chand and testes that produve T in the normal male range
and
2) XX female athletes whose natural T is slightly or moderately elevated above the top end of the normal female range because they have a female-only health condition involving their ovaries, polycystic ovary syndrome or PCOS.
The main focus of the talk was the IAAF/WA regulations that Semenya challenged in court and the CAS decided to greenlight when deciding against Semenya in the landmark decision it handed down in on May 19, 2019. Those regulations require(d) XY DSD athletes to reduce their testosterone to below 5 nmol/L in order to compete in middle distance women's track & field events.
The 2019 regualtions have since been extended to all women's events. What's more, now XY DSD athletes have to reduce their T to an even lower level - 2.5 nmol/L - and for a longer period of time to gain eligibility for women's compeition.
The document you linked to is full of the sort of dishonest framing and misleading language that the gender vendor industry constantly uses to try to sow confusion and obscure the truth in an attempt to make to make it appear that there's hardly any difference between female athletes with hyperandrogenism due to PCOS and male DSD athletes with normal levels of T for males.
The new IAAF regulations require women with testosterone levels in the male range to medically reduce them to be allowed to compete, however the fairness and morality of these rules have been challenged by human rights and academic experts.
The reasons for high testosterone levels in women are complex and may be caused by rare conditions such as having the male Y chromosome and male gonads.
Prof Angelica Lindén Hirschberg from the Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University hospital in Sweden and colleagues, have investigated the levels of testosterone in female athletes and...found that top female athletes were more likely to have common and mild conditions that increase testosterone levels, like polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) but also rare conditions with very high naturally occurring levels of testosterone in the male range.
[The "rare conditions" referrred to in that passage are male genetics and testes.]
women with polycystic ovary syndrome (PCOS) are overrepresented in elite athletes. PCOS, which is a mild form of hyperandrogenism...
The prevalence of differences of sex development (DSD) is also increased among female athletes. XYDSD may cause a greatly increased production of testosterone in the male range, i.e. 10-20 times higher than in the normal female range.
If the [XY DSD] individual has normal androgen sensitivity, her muscle mass will develop as in males, along with increasing signs of virilization.
One thing to add for the sake of clarity and as much accuracy as possible:
In addition to trying to give the false impression that XX female athletes with elevated T due to PCOS and XY male DSD athletes with high T due to testes are physically similar and thus belong in the same sports category, the document that Russians again linked to is extremely misleading because it claims that elite female athletes are "more likelly to have" PCOS than the general female population.
I am very familiar with the research and papers that this claim is based on, and I dont believe the data supports it. In fact, I think it's as much bollox as the claim that
"high testerone in women may be caused by rare conditions such as having the male Y chromosome and male gonads"
From my reading of the data, there's no evidence that PCOS is more prevalent amongst elite female athletes than amongst the general population. If the evidence suggests any departure from the norm, I think it's that elite female athletes have lower rates of PCOS than other, ordinary female people.
This makes sense given that PCOS is a complex and very serious health condition that causes most affected women to have considerable difficulty getting into and staying in shape, maintaining a healthy weight, keeping up energy levels, and going through day-to-day life with a positive, "can do" attitude.
PCOS is a clinical syndrome characterized by menstrual irregularities, polycystic ovaries, obesity, insulin resistance, infertility, chronic inflammation and signs of excess androgen such as acne, excess body and facial hair, thinning hair on the head. PCOS also is associated with long-term complications including metabolic syndrome, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer of the edometrium (lining of the uterus).
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
I'm sorry but the right wing dumbasses who are pushing this are actual psychopaths about this gender stuff. She was born a women, literally has always been a woman, is not trans, and has never been trans, doesn't want to be trans. Now a bunch of retards decide her achievement doesn't matter because they made up some story about how she's "scientifically male" or something. I guess now any great female athlete can just be called a man because of right wing brain rot gender ideology
who realised she wasn't fighting a woman. But the obvious is too obvious here.
Is this your new invention after the EPO doping arguments?
Sports fans can as easily be counted on not to see doping - which WADA confirms is through the sport - as to not see when a male is competing in a female event. Rio taught you nothing.
First of all, she was assigned female at birth, and has always been a woman. She's been s boxer for years. She is not pretending to be a man. Second, nine women have beaten her. Third, the boxing association never sent any tests to the IOC. so everyone is basing their statements on eyeballing her and determining that she's a man. I'm not saying that she should or shouldn't be permitted to be on the women's category. I don't know and neither do you. Info about her biology is unavailable to us.
Finally, there are always gonna be marginal cases. No matter where you draw the line, there will always be someone who is close to the line. Y'all really need to get a grip on yourselves because there's always gonna someone you don't consider a woman running with the women. And certainly she is not an imposter.
There isn't a "close to the line" when it comes to being biologically male. You are or you aren't. Being "assigned female at birth" or "self definition" as female doesn't change XY chromosomes and having testes.
I'm sorry but the right wing dumbasses who are pushing this are actual psychopaths about this gender stuff. She was born a women, literally has always been a woman, is not trans, and has never been trans, doesn't want to be trans. Now a bunch of retards decide her achievement doesn't matter because they made up some story about how she's "scientifically male" or something. I guess now any great female athlete can just be called a man because of right wing brain rot gender ideology
So how is being "born a woman" if that person has XY chromosomes and internal testes? You're describing Caster Semenya.
There isn't a "close to the line" when it comes to being biologically male. You are or you aren't. Being "assigned female at birth" or "self definition" as female doesn't change XY chromosomes and having testes.
This is the most sane thing I have ever seen you type.
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