The US military-industrial complex overall was budgeted way higher than 5%, and kept its secrets just fine. You don't need every US service member to know them. Only those who need to know.
You can send 400,000 soldiers to invade a country, but also send a small elite black ops unit to fake the death of its president and secretly transport him to Guantanamo Bay prison. None of the other 400,000 soldiers know a damn thing about it, and the black ops guys and their superiors will never spill the beans. This is routine for the US military, for which NASA was essentially a civilian front.
Nearly every Apollo astronaut was either a military service member or veteran.
To repeat, if government can't keep such a big secret, what's the deal with Area 51? Even if it turns out to be just an ordinary x-plane test site, those secrets have still been keep exceptionally well. Thousands of people know what's there, but there has been no definitive leak, ever.
Yes, because Area 51 isn't a gigantic hoax where thousands of people are being asked to deliberately lie to their countrymen + accept honor and accolades as if they were heroes.
all you ever seem to do is dissemble. Hoax or not, Area 51 is there and its purpose remains a closely guarded state secret.
Thousands of people clearly have learned this purpose over the decades, but not one has spilled the beans. So there goes any claim of "government can't keep a big secret."
Yes, because Area 51 isn't a gigantic hoax where thousands of people are being asked to deliberately lie to their countrymen + accept honor and accolades as if they were heroes.
all you ever seem to do is dissemble. Hoax or not, Area 51 is there and its purpose remains a closely guarded state secret.
Thousands of people clearly have learned this purpose over the decades, but not one has spilled the beans. So there goes any claim of "government can't keep a big secret."
Area 51 is confirmed as a flight testing facility:
Area 51 is the common name of a highly classified United States Air Force (USAF) facility within the Nevada Test and Training Range. A remote detachment administered by Edwards Air Force Base, the facility is officially calle...
Regardless, there's clearly a difference between: "Don't tell anyone about this secret flight testing facility where we test cutting edge aircraft" and "Don't tell anyone we spent 5% of the federal budget to fake the moon landing."
My claim is not that 'the government can't keep a big secret' it's that the government can't keep a big conspiracy secret.
all you ever seem to do is dissemble. Hoax or not, Area 51 is there and its purpose remains a closely guarded state secret.
Thousands of people clearly have learned this purpose over the decades, but not one has spilled the beans. So there goes any claim of "government can't keep a big secret."
Area 51 is confirmed as a flight testing facility:
Regardless, there's clearly a difference between: "Don't tell anyone about this secret flight testing facility where we test cutting edge aircraft" and "Don't tell anyone we spent 5% of the federal budget to fake the moon landing."
My claim is not that 'the government can't keep a big secret' it's that the government can't keep a big conspiracy secret.
Still waiting for you to tell us which conspiracies made it to the decade mark and which ones didn’t. Lol
The best explanation to me as to why the moon landing might have been faked would be because it would be far easier and cheaper to win the space race, if we just faked it. That doesn't mean we did, but it wouldn't have been a terrible idea.
But it would be far harder to keep a fake moon landing secret for over 50 years. Don't people think the Russians would have figured it out? Wouldn't NASA, Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon have weighed the risk of an exposed fake moon landing as being worse than the risk of a failed moon landing?
So many people involved, and their successors would have to cover it up after them too. People on the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter project would have to agree to continue the "lie" and make fake pictures of the Apollo landing sites decades later. Other countries would be in on it too. All these years and all these people then and now keeping a secret? No way!
Besides there is tons of evidence that varifies the Apollo landings happened. Moon rocks, moon dust on space suits, photos, eyewitnesses, laser reflectors on the moon placed by the astronauts, pictures of the landing sites decades later from the LRO and other countries moon probes. So many engineers, geologists, astronomers, etc., etc. all lying about it then and now? No way!
good points, some simple questions to ponder.
1) Even if Russia "figured it out" why would this matter? I mean anyone who dares have any different opinion other than "it absolutely 100% happened" is immediately labelled some flat-earth, tin-foil hat wearing nutter (which is sad and absurd btw). If the nation that was in the space race also investing billions of dollars into the same thing but couldn't achieve it says they don't believe it happened - we already know the response.
2) So many people involved. Do you personally how many people were involved? Like how many is it? 10? 50? 100? 1000? Unless you know this and to what level of involvement was needed to be privy to either a successful landing or a hoax, you simply can't make that statement.
3) Evidence and lack of diversity where it comes from. The vast majority of evidence comes from NASA itself - "hey we did it", the videos and pictures of them doing it and the "eyewitnesses" - there are only 12 of them, the astronauts, and they are all American males who work for NASA. Moon rocks? The underlying criteria for a moon rock which is "not created on earth" which again is kind of meaningless. Meteorites or pieces of have hit this earth hundreds of times in modern history. Not to mention that nobody is contending probes from the US and other nations haven't been to the surface and collected samples. The question then is, do you know for sure these "moon rocks" were all hand picked and carried back by one of the 12 men allegedly to have stepped foot on the surface? Again, the only entity that says "yeah they were" is NASA. There is no way for you or I or honestly any scientist/geologist to know if these rocks were taken from the surface by a robot or even if they hit the earth from a meteorite. The only word they weren't comes from a completely non-objective source.
all you ever seem to do is dissemble. Hoax or not, Area 51 is there and its purpose remains a closely guarded state secret.
Thousands of people clearly have learned this purpose over the decades, but not one has spilled the beans. So there goes any claim of "government can't keep a big secret."
Area 51 is confirmed as a flight testing facility:
Regardless, there's clearly a difference between: "Don't tell anyone about this secret flight testing facility where we test cutting edge aircraft" and "Don't tell anyone we spent 5% of the federal budget to fake the moon landing."
My claim is not that 'the government can't keep a big secret' it's that the government can't keep a big conspiracy secret.
boldfaced to illustrate the continuing dissembly. A group of people acting and planning in secret is the very definition of conspiracy.
Leaving aside that wikipedia is compromised by its reliance on pro-government ("reputable") sources, and is itself not an authority on anything, the government has a long history of denialism and obfuscation over Area 51. And with its covert aircraft development in general, where it deliberately encouraged UFO hype for cover.
What aircraft are being tested there now? Craft like the U2 and SR71 are decades in the past. Whether one finds this a plausible explanation for the dramatic secrecy around this one base, merely acknowledging that the government does divert and cover its activity should prevent you from accepting it on authority.
Maybe it's really a secret test facility, maybe not. But once again, even if you accept uncritically that it is, there's still not one shred of info about what's being tested there. Government can and does keep secrets. Big secrets.
Regardless, there's clearly a difference between: "Don't tell anyone about this secret flight testing facility where we test cutting edge aircraft" and "Don't tell anyone we spent 5% of the federal budget to fake the moon landing."
My claim is not that 'the government can't keep a big secret' it's that the government can't keep a big conspiracy secret.
boldfaced to illustrate the continuing dissembly. A group of people acting and planning in secret is the very definition of conspiracy.
Leaving aside that wikipedia is compromised by its reliance on pro-government ("reputable") sources, and is itself not an authority on anything, the government has a long history of denialism and obfuscation over Area 51. And with its covert aircraft development in general, where it deliberately encouraged UFO hype for cover.
What aircraft are being tested there now? Craft like the U2 and SR71 are decades in the past. Whether one finds this a plausible explanation for the dramatic secrecy around this one base, merely acknowledging that the government does divert and cover its activity should prevent you from accepting it on authority.
Maybe it's really a secret test facility, maybe not. But once again, even if you accept uncritically that it is, there's still not one shred of info about what's being tested there. Government can and does keep secrets. Big secrets.
I mean I don't know why we are even talking US government? NASA isn't the US government we are aware of that right? It's an independently funded government agency. Like we really think there are hundreds upon hundreds of government officials that have day to day knowledge of what the f--k NASA is doing - now or in the 50s and 60s? You think guys at NASA know what's going down at the CIA, FBI, DEA?
This post was edited 10 minutes after it was posted.
I'm starting to get why the conspiracy theorists believe the original moon stuff was faked. My iphone has more than 100,000 times the processing power of the computers used for the Apollo mission and yet it came out yesterday that the latest attempt to simply land a box on the moon has failed.
When I was trying to think of a possible good explanation, I initially thought, "Well back in the day the best and the brightest worked for NASA, now they are all in Silicon Valley acting like ahol** and trying to get rich designing some app that's ultimately of little use. Maybe only the guys and gals who can't get private industry jobs go to NASA."
But then I saw this most recent failure was from some private company that we paid $108 million bucks to. Can the taxpayers at least get their money back?
Science experts of letsrun, let me hear your theories as to why we suck at space much more than 55 years ago.
For several years I have had a Google smart phone. It's great, but sometimes I think it knows too much about what I'm thinking. It suggested I read this article.
A man crashed his car outside a Bass Pro Shop in Alabama, stripped down to his birthday suit and plunged into the giant aquarium inside the store, police sai...
This is pretty convincing argument that the US astronauts actually went to the moon. And its an intelligent point from physicists.
A final nail in the coffin of the Moon hoax theories is a simple instrument installed 50 years ago by Apollo 11. During their day on the Moon, Armstrong and Aldrin planted a lunar laser ranging retroreflector array on the surface. It’s still operational today, and allows us to reflect lasers off of it and measure the distance to the Moon down to the centimetre. We simply couldn’t do this if we hadn’t visited the Moon.
1) Even if Russia "figured it out" why would this matter? I mean anyone who dares have any different opinion other than "it absolutely 100% happened" is immediately labelled some flat-earth, tin-foil hat wearing nutter (which is sad and absurd btw). If the nation that was in the space race also investing billions of dollars into the same thing but couldn't achieve it says they don't believe it happened - we already know the response.
2) So many people involved. Do you personally how many people were involved? Like how many is it? 10? 50? 100? 1000? Unless you know this and to what level of involvement was needed to be privy to either a successful landing or a hoax, you simply can't make that statement.
3) Evidence and lack of diversity where it comes from. The vast majority of evidence comes from NASA itself - "hey we did it", the videos and pictures of them doing it and the "eyewitnesses" - there are only 12 of them, the astronauts, and they are all American males who work for NASA. Moon rocks? The underlying criteria for a moon rock which is "not created on earth" which again is kind of meaningless. Meteorites or pieces of have hit this earth hundreds of times in modern history. Not to mention that nobody is contending probes from the US and other nations haven't been to the surface and collected samples. The question then is, do you know for sure these "moon rocks" were all hand picked and carried back by one of the 12 men allegedly to have stepped foot on the surface? Again, the only entity that says "yeah they were" is NASA. There is no way for you or I or honestly any scientist/geologist to know if these rocks were taken from the surface by a robot or even if they hit the earth from a meteorite. The only word they weren't comes from a completely non-objective source.
1) Russia could release photos from the landing sites taken with an orbiter. Or they could land there with a probe. Both would be conclusive. Neither has been done. You know why. 2) 400,000 total people were involved in the Apollo programs. That’s a lot. Many were working on mission critical systems. It’s indisputable that a large number of people would have been privy to the conspiracy. Giant masterminded plots with everyone knowing only part of the problem only happen in movies. 3) WTF. You’re rambling about something without even googling it. Read this:
Plenty of things separate the Apollo samples from lunar meteorites. And, of course, the Chinese and Russian have true lunar samples to. Remind me why they wouldn’t call ours bogus? Or did they fake it too?
It’s clear what you want to be true and will go to any length to mindlessly discredit any opposing arguments.
Regardless, there's clearly a difference between: "Don't tell anyone about this secret flight testing facility where we test cutting edge aircraft" and "Don't tell anyone we spent 5% of the federal budget to fake the moon landing."
My claim is not that 'the government can't keep a big secret' it's that the government can't keep a big conspiracy secret.
boldfaced to illustrate the continuing dissembly. A group of people acting and planning in secret is the very definition of conspiracy.
Leaving aside that wikipedia is compromised by its reliance on pro-government ("reputable") sources, and is itself not an authority on anything, the government has a long history of denialism and obfuscation over Area 51. And with its covert aircraft development in general, where it deliberately encouraged UFO hype for cover.
What aircraft are being tested there now? Craft like the U2 and SR71 are decades in the past. Whether one finds this a plausible explanation for the dramatic secrecy around this one base, merely acknowledging that the government does divert and cover its activity should prevent you from accepting it on authority.
Maybe it's really a secret test facility, maybe not. But once again, even if you accept uncritically that it is, there's still not one shred of info about what's being tested there. Government can and does keep secrets. Big secrets.
You’re playing dumb if you can’t see the difference, there’s no intent to defraud their constituents when the military keeps A51 a secret. When Apple keeps the Apple Watch series 25 a secret, is that a conspiracy too? By your definition. Useful. The B-21 was/is likely tested at A51. Or its little green men and everything is deeper than we could possibly imagine (I sense this is where you land, spooky).
Regardless, keeping things secret doesn’t make something a conspiracy. You’re forgetting the nefarious intent. Unless you’re Russian or Chinese, then sure, US military secrets are a conspiracy to keep you guys from beating us.
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