Jakob is not the greatest md runner of all time and may never be. He holds no world records at a championship distance - not the 1500/mile, 5k/10k. He may never. He has yet to win a world championship title over his specialty distance. He may never. All these feats have been accomplished by the great md runners before him - and latterly El G.
Look if I was a fanboy I would be an EL G fanboy, not Jakob one. And the reason because I'm actually the fanboy of antiquity and traditional conservative styles and ethics. El G just happens to fit into that antiquated and conservative mold otherwise I wouldn't be an EL G fan. I subscribe not to an object like El G, but to a far more abstract subject such as morality from where I base my decisions and judgements. I know it's subjective, but full objectivity is also impossible and highly constrained in this case of determining who is a doper. You can only have true objectivity at the end of space and time which is the end of the world. Only when it's over and done with can you really do objective analysis. But that's still impossible as when the end of the world comes we would all be dead anyway so unable to undertake any objective analysis. Earth wouldn't even exist much less gravity, so you will be in no physical condition to think, breathe and function anyway.
Okay to cut the long story short, you don't need to trust me but this is my holistic assessment that none of these 2 athletes ever doped.
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
You need to learn the trade and skill of psychoanalysis. You need to read human beings better, both non-verbal and verbal and employ a holistic approach too. I for one look at Jakob's trainer Gjert Ingebrigsten and am totally impressed with his spanking clean sport morals. Like in the way he lambasted Jakob for bringing home a girl (Elizabeth) for overnight stays whom he isn't married to yet in his teens. If a father/trainer can be furious at such moral failing, he is likely to impose stricter rules for doping and disallow or disavow it vehemently.
Due to Gjert's strong moral foundation, coupled with his strong fatherly oversight over Jakob all throughout his teens and early twenties, it is unlikely (very low probability) Gjert would give drugs to Jakob nor would Jakob deviate from his father's righteous commandments and go find drugs to consume for fear of repercussions. This strong foundation is likely to accompany Jakob the rest of his career which means his good upbringing in terms of antidoping issues would forestall any temptation to dope in his twenties and/or thirties till end of career.
Look if I was a fanboy I would be an EL G fanboy, not Jakob one. And the reason because I'm actually the fanboy of antiquity and traditional conservative styles and ethics. El G just happens to fit into that antiquated and conservative mold otherwise I wouldn't be an EL G fan. I subscribe not to an object like El G, but to a far more abstract subject such as morality from where I base my decisions and judgements. I know it's subjective, but full objectivity is also impossible and highly constrained in this case of determining who is a doper. You can only have true objectivity at the end of space and time which is the end of the world. Only when it's over and done with can you really do objective analysis. But that's still impossible as when the end of the world comes we would all be dead anyway so unable to undertake any objective analysis. Earth wouldn't even exist much less gravity, so you will be in no physical condition to think, breathe and function anyway.
Okay to cut the long story short, you don't need to trust me but this is my holistic assessment that none of these 2 athletes ever doped.
How about using basic reasoning.. how likely is it that Jakob is clean if he's trashing athletes (and times of former athletes) who were doped to the gills?
Well then the other dopers were just not as good as Jakob you know? We need to assess it on a case by case morality basis. There is no normative or conventional moral rule to judge these matters except on an individual basis. We treat Jakob, El G, as an individual and scrutinize them individually. You can't use standard population theory such as the numbers game to say who probably doped and who didn't. Standard distribution curves or 'aggregate morality' do not work for such special analyses. It has to be customized and individualized. That's all I can say. I call such analyses the 'Quantum Mechanical Approach' where every photon is individualized with its own discrete energy values you know?
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
Well then the other dopers were just not as good as Jakob you know? We need to assess it on a case by case morality basis. There is no normative or conventional moral rule to judge these matters except on an individual basis. We treat Jakob, El G, as an individual and scrutinize them individually. You can't use standard population theory such as the numbers game to say who probably doped and who didn't. Standard distribution curves or 'aggregate morality' do not work for such special analyses. It has to be customized and individualized. That's all I can say.
Wrong - if you want to be competitive within the top 10% of the sport, doping is required. The incentive, opportunity and rationalization (is it really immoral if you know the greats have done it?) are there. Get your head in the game. Doping is just too easily accessible and easy to do for any athlete with serious ambitions not to do it. You have to be ret@rted to believe a clean Jakob would be trashing a doped to the gills El G today.
But I'll give you this... correct that if assuming all are doping, it means clearly some are still better than others. Armstrong was likely more talented.. but even then, some can dope better than others so they have a leg up. Lance's doping program was miles ahead of the others, so while I believe he may have been more talented, it could be really just better doping.
El G won Athens in almost the same or worst heat than Budapest, tokyo, eugene. Do you know how hot it was in Athens when El G won the 1500m and 5000m together? There is a small caveat though, El G may have benefitted inadvertently to some small or large degree from asthma drug advair which he had a TUE for. This will forever taint my knowledge of his double gold medals in Athens.
But then El G won in Seville 99 in 3:27:65 which was also super hot and humid but lost in Sydney 2000 in cooler 60s-70s temps to Noah Ngeny. It was also definitely hot in Atlanta in 96, and hot in Athens 97 where he also won the 1500m.
Taken as a whole, El G seems to win all the hot and humid championships but lose the cooler ones? It's of course only 1 angle to look at things and there are many other angles.
I have no objections here -my point was only that there seems to be individual differences, and that athletes’ place of origin doesn’t give the whole picture. I think a multiple number of athletes (from a lot of regions) would benefit from less extreme heat during the distance races, and I think that would be more fair play…
Look if I was a fanboy I would be an EL G fanboy, not Jakob one. And the reason because I'm actually the fanboy of antiquity and traditional conservative styles and ethics. El G just happens to fit into that antiquated and conservative mold otherwise I wouldn't be an EL G fan. I subscribe not to an object like El G, but to a far more abstract subject such as morality from where I base my decisions and judgements. I know it's subjective, but full objectivity is also impossible and highly constrained in this case of determining who is a doper. You can only have true objectivity at the end of space and time which is the end of the world. Only when it's over and done with can you really do objective analysis. But that's still impossible as when the end of the world comes we would all be dead anyway so unable to undertake any objective analysis. Earth wouldn't even exist much less gravity, so you will be in no physical condition to think, breathe and function anyway.
Okay to cut the long story short, you don't need to trust me but this is my holistic assessment that none of these 2 athletes ever doped.
Extremely naive of you to think El G didn't dope, you argue that true objectivity is impossible and its as if you give up on any analysis and logic. El G was most likely doped throughout his career.
I agree with everything except the part of his doping. I don't think Jakob dopes and his body language and behavior does not tend to suggest it. And his performances are pretty gradual and consistent as well, nothing overnight or too fast and furious improvement. The lack of a WR at championship distance is very debilitating for his reputation and Faith Kipyegon's WRs are all championship distances but doesn't seem to be celebrated as much as Jakob. It could be due to Faith's humble personality and humble character. Jakob is also quite humble but he has that hint of bad boy what with pierced ear rings, tattoos all over his body. Tattoos and piercings give people the idea that you are a 'bad' person like some hooligan or gangster although it may not necessarily always be the case but it does convey that idea at first glance.
Did El G (Muslim) and Faith Kipyegon (Christian) ever got a tattoo or piercing, I don't think so as their religion forbids it. God says the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and one should not defile it with external images or ornaments that don't make gender sense! Ear piercings and rings are only for the female gender and Jakob is a male! Tattoos are prohibited for both genders. I myself tend to not socialize or mix around with men/women with tattoos, and men with ear rings, it's just weird.
Imagine what would Jakob run without ear rings and tattoos? He might just well have taken the 1500m and mile WR already albeit with supershoes, wavelights and doped track surfaces.......
With Ingebrigtsen and Kipyegon you simply see what you want to see. What you don't want to see - and leaps out with their performances - is they are both absolutely juiced to the gills. There is no way they can do what they do without it.
What a ridiculous post Armstrong. The reasoning of Khamis is worthless of course, Jakobs or others body language means nothing, but Jakob doped to the gills? Highly unlikely. If anything the only thing I believe he or others like him could do is "abuse" the gray area of asthma medicine.
I agree with everything except the part of his doping. I don't think Jakob dopes and his body language and behavior does not tend to suggest it. And his performances are pretty gradual and consistent as well, nothing overnight or too fast and furious improvement. The lack of a WR at championship distance is very debilitating for his reputation and Faith Kipyegon's WRs are all championship distances but doesn't seem to be celebrated as much as Jakob. It could be due to Faith's humble personality and humble character. Jakob is also quite humble but he has that hint of bad boy what with pierced ear rings, tattoos all over his body. Tattoos and piercings give people the idea that you are a 'bad' person like some hooligan or gangster although it may not necessarily always be the case but it does convey that idea at first glance.
Did El G (Muslim) and Faith Kipyegon (Christian) ever got a tattoo or piercing, I don't think so as their religion forbids it. God says the body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and one should not defile it with external images or ornaments that don't make gender sense! Ear piercings and rings are only for the female gender and Jakob is a male! Tattoos are prohibited for both genders. I myself tend to not socialize or mix around with men/women with tattoos, and men with ear rings, it's just weird.
Imagine what would Jakob run without ear rings and tattoos? He might just well have taken the 1500m and mile WR already albeit with supershoes, wavelights and doped track surfaces.......
With Ingebrigtsen and Kipyegon you simply see what you want to see. What you don't want to see - and leaps out with their performances - is they are both absolutely juiced to the gills. There is no way they can do what they do without it.
But Ingebrigtsen is - according to you - not any special. Good, OK, but not great. If Ingebrigtsen must be a doper, what about Wightman and Kerr?
Which post please be specific? do you mean the impending marriage to Elizabeth? You mean you didn't know all the great track runners at 1500m, 5000m, 10000m all deteriorated from their best form once they got married? It's my personal unique observation though. Marital union deteriorates natural raw speed and speed endurance which has nothing to do with lack of training. It affects slower endurance like marathons to a lesser extent. And doesn't do anything to ultra-trail marathon endurance.
That is what they said about Dave Wottle, said marriage was going to kill his chances of an Olympic Medal and he won gold. What about the numerous female records and race wins by women who have had children. Hmm...
It's quite insane most of you think El G and Jakob are doped as hell. El G was the nicest honest most lovable athlete on the golden league circuit and frequently sheds tears when he gets emotional. You folks call such body language doping? It's just insane. And Jakob is such a baby, a child rather, doted upon by his father Gjert like a precious jewel, do you really guys think with so much LOVE AND CARE in Jakob's upbringing he could deviate into Satan's path and consume drugs whether explicitly or gray area??
Okay maybe I'm really ignorant but could you tell me what you mean by 'doping is easily accessible and easy to do?' Like which drugs are you talking about and are they bought online or something etc....?
If El G doped, he did have a TUE for it right? That's Athens 2004 when he had been sidelined with asthma for 8 weeks in the winter and spring and couldn't train properly and was prescribed Advair or otherwise. That's legally not doping but may confer some slight advantage. That's as far as El G 'doped'.
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