New detailed info about Shelby/btc relationship

Yeah, I'd actually argue that baseball never recovered from two things: 1. The 94' strike. 2. The blind eye the authorities turned to the dopers in the late 90s/early 00s. Of course, there's the speed of the game, other sports being more exciting, etc. But to me, these two things accelerated the sport into more of a regional following, as opposed to the national interest in NFL and NBA.

Doping doesn't give one more innate natural ability, but it does allow athletes to handle greater training loads and to recover from injury quicker (this is not rhetorical, but a genuine question)?

I don't think this is an either/or scenario but a spectral one, and it seems WADA has decided on "we'll tolerate this, but not that" somewhere along the spectrum.

The word is "flaut". You "flaunt" (show off) medals and ribbons; you "flout" (defy) rules.

Our body is designed to build up to huge training loads and still recover quickly. We produce our own performance enhancers naturally.

WADA have no interest in debating these issues. Reform need to start with their own self serving agenda, but they are not open to dialogue.

Young Professional athletes like Shelby are merely pawns in the game.

And to answer your point about "we'll tolerate this, but not that." Sha-Carri Richardson being busted for smoking weed? Hmm is she the only elite sprinter who does that? Or was she the tokin scape goat in Olympic year?

I know that's what you're saying and it's irrelevant to this discussion which is about someone caught breaking a rule and is doing her best to ignore the consequences that came from doing so. Whether the rule is based on superstition or not, whether taking nandrolone improved her performances or not doesn't matter. She did something she's not allowed to do.

And I answered this point by asking how many chemicals are going to be added to the list.

Your reply tells me you don't care about how young Professional athletes are exploited.

You also question their natural ability. This is your delusion. They are naturally gifted. You weren't. Can you still not accept this?

You are an insane person, Jon Orange

Address the issues or admit you don't care.

In reverse order, I have never had any trouble accepting that there are thousands of people in the sport who were more naturally gifted than I was. The reason I ran as much as I did was because I hoped I could beat some of them by working harder. I don't question the natural abilities of such athletes but I do question whether or not all of their performances are the results of something more than their natural abilities and training.

I don't consider it as exploitation to require athletes to conform with the rules of their sport or to be censured in some form when found not to be doing so.

How would I know? That's someone else's job. Maybe you should try to get hired somewhere where it becomes your job. It might be a more effective way of changing the system than making semi anonymous and unsupported opinion posts on a message board.

Ugh… can’t you understand what HRE is consistently and patiently explaining?!? it’s not that hard. If you think that drugs and testing is not a thing, then fine… that’s a separate issue. If you think that it doesn’t matter if a 10k race is 10,000 meters or 9,600 meters, then cool, you can attempt to make that argument as well. What we can’t have, however, as a sport (or society) are established rules and consequences, but then have people eschewing such rules and consequences because of their belief that they do not pertain to them. Make sense? I sometimes play the game Chutes and Ladders with my 3 year old. When he gets near the top and needs a 6 to win, he’ll roll a 3, but move however many spaces he needs to proclaim himself the victor. I let it slide when he’s 3, but I anticipate that by age 5 or 6, he’ll get it.

But you still doubt their ability. You still endorse the PED concept. You're still part of the problem, not the solution.

Still doubt their ability? Maybe. Really, what is ability and how do we tell how much of it anyone has? So what? Look, I'm not part of much of anything anymore and if I change my mind on this and come to agreeing with you nothing changes except that you'd have one more person here agreeing with your posts on this.

I'm trying to say that the PED concept is based on superstitious belief in superhuman metabolism. It's a fantasy. There is no superhuman metabolism. That's not how metabolism works.

Ask a so called exercise physiologist to explain these things in bioenergetics terms and they can't. They simply don't have the understanding of basic biological principles.

I've seen this problem grow every year since 1976. Sensational journalism isn't Science.

So, before moving on to your arguments, are you conceding that HRE is correct that SH should abide by the established rules / consequences?

You're still around! Cool! I've sometimes wondered where you'd gone. How are things?

Ask rekrunner. He addressed this in his summary.

I wish her well. I think she has been shat upon. So do some of her BTC team mates.

I agree. I should be able to eat as many burritos as I want regardless of how many PEDs are stuffed into them. If you can't find a theoretical-physicist who can prove its benefitting me, then it should be fair game.

^Before you give us all a lecture on science and Newtonian physics, maybe you should go back and review the basic capitalization rules you learned in second grade.

Hey HRE, Kinda still around (lol)… I’ll go for months without visiting, and then for whatever reason, I’ll LR binge for a weekend (mostly lurking). I typically think that even “clear minded thinkers” are really driven more by emotion than logic, but dang if I don’t always appreciate your contributions/perspectives! As an aside, one of your stories (the one where it was 20 below and you tried explaining to the motorist that it wasn’t so bad… hahaha) is one that I tell pretty often about a friend of mine! Lotsa parallels can be drawn with that one. Anyway, I just tried to search your address, but I’m not finding it… hmmm…