don't dispute that he could run faster than 1.47 in better conditions or improve on his best of 1.46.4. The question is, by how much? If you say 1.45-high I might agree
Armstronglivs wrote: There is nothing in Jakob's performances to suggest he could get near 1.45.
Just wanna outline how you are full of BS and you realized it in the end.
1.45 is not 1 45-high. But while we are speculating perhaps you could offer the definitive data on what he will undoubtedly run?
I quite understand that Cheryuiot has had a focus in the 800 - he has the necessary speed for the distance, as his 1.43 has shown. Jakob hasn't focussed on it - because he doesn't have that kind of speed (which has been my main point). He would not be competitive over the distance. I don't dispute that he could run faster than 1.47 in better conditions or improve on his best of 1.46.4. The question is, by how much? If you say 1.45-high I might agree, but 1.44x I would see as extremely unlikely. He simply hasn't shown that kind of speed in his races; he is about strength and endurance. So are you saying he is a "fast" 1500 runner or are you effectively agreeing with me, that he is relatively "slow" for a top competitor in that event?
Good to see you already have realized how far out you were and moderated yourself. Ofcourse he would run 1.45.xx, which would put him ahead of legends - not the problem you make it out to be.
He may not. Lagat said 1.46 was his absolute limit. I see him as faster than Jakob.
People say the mile has an easy 15 second conversion at this level from the 1500 but that’s clearly not the case. This is a 3:29 flat 1500 or less. The human body just breaks down a lot even before the 1500 m mark and gets super lactic at this pace. That’s also why the mile is only 3:43.13 with multiple rabbits and a nice prize sum in 1999.
The conversion factor used by Track and Field News is 8%. So, 3:46.46 is roughly equivalent to 3:29.69. Clearly a set number of seconds cannot apply at different levels.
I quite understand that Cheryuiot has had a focus in the 800 - he has the necessary speed for the distance, as his 1.43 has shown. Jakob hasn't focussed on it - because he doesn't have that kind of speed (which has been my main point). He would not be competitive over the distance. I don't dispute that he could run faster than 1.47 in better conditions or improve on his best of 1.46.4. The question is, by how much? If you say 1.45-high I might agree, but 1.44x I would see as extremely unlikely. He simply hasn't shown that kind of speed in his races; he is about strength and endurance. So are you saying he is a "fast" 1500 runner or are you effectively agreeing with me, that he is relatively "slow" for a top competitor in that event?
Good to see you already have realized how far out you were and moderated yourself. Ofcourse he would run 1.45.xx, which would put him ahead of legends - not the problem you make it out to be.
If J.I. grew up in southern California and trained from age 12 as an 800m specialist, he could have raced 1:45.xx 800m. J.I. logs 120 plus miles per week, as Peter Coe would have said, "Clydesdale training." J.I. runs 120 plus miles per week and to him (6 to 10) x 800m is a speed workout. J.I., just to impress some folks on this site may race 1:45.9 on a relay leg, but J.I. will never race sub-1:46 800m training the way he trains.
I agree that he most likely will never do it. He will do a 800 now and then, without training, without tapering, no-matter the weather just as a training run. And people like Armstronglives will make wild speculations based on it.
He may not. Lagat said 1.46 was his absolute limit. I see him as faster than Jakob.
Lagat says that but he ran his PB of 1:46.00 in 2003 which was not a banner season for him. Not even getting into his EPO A Sample positive, he ran that 800 between two 1500s. Race #1 was a 3:32.99 1500m win ~ fine. But then Race #2 was a 3:30.55 1500 where he got destroyed by El Guerrouj who ran 3:29.13. He never ran a mid-season 800m ever again until 2009 when even as more of a 3:32 type guy at the 1500 with serious aerobic strength he could break 1:47. Lagat's prime was really 2000-2007, and while he contested the 800 a decent bit in his true best seasons of 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2004 where he went well under 3:30 he did not an 800m in July-September.
So here's what I'd say Lagat when he was in about 3:30 shape was a 1:46.0 guy. We have plenty of data to back that up. When he was a 3:32 guy, he was more like 1:46 high. That IS quite slow for most 1500m guys. I do believe if he ever raced it while in 3:26-3:29 shape he would've run more like 1:45.5 even if he thinks otherwise.
Good to see you already have realized how far out you were and moderated yourself. Ofcourse he would run 1.45.xx, which would put him ahead of legends - not the problem you make it out to be.
If J.I. grew up in southern California and trained from age 12 as an 800m specialist, he could have raced 1:45.xx 800m. J.I. logs 120 plus miles per week, as Peter Coe would have said, "Clydesdale training." J.I. runs 120 plus miles per week and to him (6 to 10) x 800m is a speed workout. J.I., just to impress some folks on this site may race 1:45.9 on a relay leg, but J.I. will never race sub-1:46 800m training the way he trains.
Snell ran 100mpw, and was a 1 44.3 guy on grass in '62. It isn't the training that makes Jakob slow.
I agree that he most likely will never do it. He will do a 800 now and then, without training, without tapering, no-matter the weather just as a training run. And people like Armstronglives will make wild speculations based on it.
You have a strange view of "wild speculation". I base my views on what he has so far run, not what some here imagine he might run, given x,y, or z factors that may or may not apply.
He may not. Lagat said 1.46 was his absolute limit. I see him as faster than Jakob.
Lagat says that but he ran his PB of 1:46.00 in 2003 which was not a banner season for him. Not even getting into his EPO A Sample positive, he ran that 800 between two 1500s. Race #1 was a 3:32.99 1500m win ~ fine. But then Race #2 was a 3:30.55 1500 where he got destroyed by El Guerrouj who ran 3:29.13. He never ran a mid-season 800m ever again until 2009 when even as more of a 3:32 type guy at the 1500 with serious aerobic strength he could break 1:47. Lagat's prime was really 2000-2007, and while he contested the 800 a decent bit in his true best seasons of 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2004 where he went well under 3:30 he did not an 800m in July-September.
So here's what I'd say Lagat when he was in about 3:30 shape was a 1:46.0 guy. We have plenty of data to back that up. When he was a 3:32 guy, he was more like 1:46 high. That IS quite slow for most 1500m guys. I do believe if he ever raced it while in 3:26-3:29 shape he would've run more like 1:45.5 even if he thinks otherwise.
You have proved to be extremely arrogant on dozens of threads over the years.
JI has ran TWO 800m races in the last FOUR seasons: 1:46.44 at age 19 in an empty stadium during covid and the current 1:47 in Bergen. Like others have shown, he probably can run sub 1:46 right now in good conditions. With little concentration probably around 1:45 I would estimate.
Still on the slow side, yes. But he is an endurance monster.
I doubt 800m times are 2 seconds fsster now than in the 60s because of shoes and tracks. At least not when compared to a well kept grass track.
Perhaps you might explain how your opinions are not "extremely arrogant" but apparent vessels of humility?
Army:
JI is a 1:47 runner
Remind me of the many other occasions that he has run faster than 1.47 (when he has ran just two 800m races in the last four seasons)
Let me know when Jakob runs 1.45. It could be a while. Maybe even forever
He may be able to run sub-1.46 at some point
If you say 1.45-high I might agree,
There is nothing in Jakob's performances to suggest he could get near 1.45.
If I realise that I was wrong on something I just agree to it (nothing bad about that, just normal in discussions). But you just squirm like an eel. But you have acted much worse in many other threads, so I can see some improvement on your side here.
If J.I. grew up in southern California and trained from age 12 as an 800m specialist, he could have raced 1:45.xx 800m. J.I. logs 120 plus miles per week, as Peter Coe would have said, "Clydesdale training." J.I. runs 120 plus miles per week and to him (6 to 10) x 800m is a speed workout. J.I., just to impress some folks on this site may race 1:45.9 on a relay leg, but J.I. will never race sub-1:46 800m training the way he trains.
Snell ran 100mpw, and was a 1 44.3 guy on grass in '62. It isn't the training that makes Jakob slow.
The last man to do Clydesdale training and earn an 800m Oympic gold medal, Steve Ovett, 1980 Olympics. It was not S. Ovett's fault that at least 40% of the world's nations boycotted said Olympics. It is not S. Ovett's fault that S. Coe allowed Ovett to be over 10m ahead with 325m to go. That said, P. Snell wouldn't make it to an Olympic 800m final training like that today if Snell were in his early twenties today. Are you trying to tell readers of let'srun J.I. possesses the same 200m speed as Peter Snell? Snell's 200m speed allowed him to overcome improper training for an 800m man.
I agree that he most likely will never do it. He will do a 800 now and then, without training, without tapering, no-matter the weather just as a training run. And people like Armstronglives will make wild speculations based on it.
You have a strange view of "wild speculation". I base my views on what he has so far run, not what some here imagine he might run, given x,y, or z factors that may or may not apply.
You can think that a runner will run his absolute best in his one yearly meet despite the weather, despite not tapering, despite focusing on a different distance, nobody stops you.
If J.I. grew up in southern California and trained from age 12 as an 800m specialist, he could have raced 1:45.xx 800m. J.I. logs 120 plus miles per week, as Peter Coe would have said, "Clydesdale training." J.I. runs 120 plus miles per week and to him (6 to 10) x 800m is a speed workout. J.I., just to impress some folks on this site may race 1:45.9 on a relay leg, but J.I. will never race sub-1:46 800m training the way he trains.
Snell ran 100mpw, and was a 1 44.3 guy on grass in '62. It isn't the training that makes Jakob slow.
We have data in regard to proper training for 800m. One-hundred-twenty miles per week is no longer included for proper 800m training. Now I question if you were ever a T&F athlete. I have raced many events, 200m to Marathon. No one is going to race Marathon at their optimum on 200m training; no one is going to sprint 200m at their optimum on Marathon training. I stand by my original post. J.I. could have been a sub-1:46 800m man if he trained for 800m from age 12. As Peter Coe said, "Clydesdale training," J.I. is not breaking 1:46 800m.
For sure, no. With Jakob we might get into a "we'll never know" zone as well. This year has a ton of championships, but even in 2023/24 he might prefer to chase 3K-5K glory over an 800m PB.
Perhaps you might explain how your opinions are not "extremely arrogant" but apparent vessels of humility?
Army:
JI is a 1:47 runner
Remind me of the many other occasions that he has run faster than 1.47 (when he has ran just two 800m races in the last four seasons)
Let me know when Jakob runs 1.45. It could be a while. Maybe even forever
He may be able to run sub-1.46 at some point
If you say 1.45-high I might agree,
There is nothing in Jakob's performances to suggest he could get near 1.45.
If I realise that I was wrong on something I just agree to it (nothing bad about that, just normal in discussions). But you just squirm like an eel. But you have acted much worse in many other threads, so I can see some improvement on your side here.
Btw: How do you pronounce "Cheryuiot"?
I see you avoided my question about your "humility" but just doubled down on your accusation of arrogance. It seems you know quite a lot about what it is to be arrogant.
Snell ran 100mpw, and was a 1 44.3 guy on grass in '62. It isn't the training that makes Jakob slow.
The last man to do Clydesdale training and earn an 800m Oympic gold medal, Steve Ovett, 1980 Olympics. It was not S. Ovett's fault that at least 40% of the world's nations boycotted said Olympics. It is not S. Ovett's fault that S. Coe allowed Ovett to be over 10m ahead with 325m to go. That said, P. Snell wouldn't make it to an Olympic 800m final training like that today if Snell were in his early twenties today. Are you trying to tell readers of let'srun J.I. possesses the same 200m speed as Peter Snell? Snell's 200m speed allowed him to overcome improper training for an 800m man.
If improper training allowed Snell to destroy world records on grass sixty years ago I would take that over your methods any day. And so would he.
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