Keira D'amato is Suspicious

Why are people suspicious? She's just a formerly retired runner, who wasn't on anyone's radar for doing something so significant, but now, seemingly out of nowhere to most, breaks an American Record that has stood for 15 years. That happens all the time.

People used to vehemently defend Lance on hear. They would rage at you for saying Lance was doped.

D'amato and Kastor marathon progressions

Keira D'amato

10/28/12 Marine Corps Marathon - 3:20:24 - age 28

7/14/13 Missoula Marathon - 3:49:49 - age 28

3/19/17 Shamrock Marathon - 3:14:54 - age 32

11/11/17 Richmond Marathon - 2:47:00 - age 33

4/16/18 Boston Marathon - 2:56:44 - age 33

6/16/18 Grandma's Marathon - 2:44:03 - age 33

11/10/18 Richmond Marathon - 2:40:56 - age 34

9/29/19 Berlin Marathon - 2:34:55 - age 34

2/29/20 Olympic Trials Marathon (Atlanta) - 2:34:23 - age 35

12/20/20 Marathon Project - 2:22:56 - age 36

10/10/21 Chicago Marathon - 2:28:22 - age 36

1/16/22 Houston Marathon - 2:19:12 - age 37

Deena Kastor

11/4/01 New York City Marathon - 2:26:59 - age 28

10/13/02 Chicago Marathon - 2:26:53 - age 29

4/3/03 London Marathon - 2:21:16 - age 30

4/3/04 Olympic Trials Marathon (St Louis) - 2:29:38 - age 31

8/22/04 Olympic Marathon (Athens) - 2:27:20 - age 31

10/9/05 Chicago Marathon - 2:21:25 - age 32

4/23/06 London Marathon - 2:19:36 - age 33

11/5/06 New York City Marathon - 2:27:54 - age 33

4/16/07 Boston Marathon - 2:35:09 - age 34

4/20/08 Olympic Marathon Trials (Boston) - 2:29:35 - age 35

10/11/09 Chicago Marathon - 2:28:50 - age 36

4/25/10 London Marathon - 2:36:20 - age 37

1/14/12 Olympic Marathon Trials (Houston) - 2:30:40 - age 38

You guys, Nike would never sponsor a doper.

Eyes are looking Goodr wrote:

Nothing strange about a former 6th place finisher in NCAA XC having untapped potential in the marathon. It’s almost like humans have immense potential to run very far at moderately quick pace as long as they take care of their bodies and work hard.

or win 7 tour d' france

Weep and read wrote:

ClubRunnah wrote:

Every woman listed above was a highly successful runner at every level in which she competed before taking on the marathon. Then comes D'Amato... sorry just not buying it.

High school - She was successful in HS, running 10:30 for 3200 back before the record books were rewritten in the 2010s. That time was outstanding for its day. She was also 9th at FL South and sub-5 in the 1600.

College - She was 6th in NCAA XC.

Pro - She set the 10-mile AR just a few months ago.

She's had success at every level, Bucko.

6th at ncaa's, an also ran.. compared to the women listed above? ?

Come back here after you actually understand this sport.

pacingmatters wrote:

And the biggest trend of dopers is that bulks lean defined muscle mass which can be see currently and appear during the time period. Shelby had it, Frenchies still has it. .

You mean Frerichs?

MelRnr wrote:

Why are people suspicious? She's just a formerly retired runner, who wasn't on anyone's radar for doing something so significant, but now, seemingly out of nowhere to most, breaks an American Record that has stood for 15 years. That happens all the time.

In any other sport, she would rightfully seen as the ultimate “anything is possible” inspiration.

She and her coach were methodical in their preparation. They took a long term approach. They did it without all the trappings of progressional runners. It’s badass. It makes me want to approach my own running with the same kind of intention.

Concorde District Alum wrote:

the macdaddy og yoo wrote:

Have we ever seen this type of dramatic improvement (at the professional level) while consistently decreasing training load?

You mean tapering? You never heard of tapering?

Man, you really swung for the fences without doing any research, huh? Try again after looking into this some more.

It takes 7-10 years to peak at the marathon, and if she wasn't training intensely during the years she was having kids, then it makes sense she would be peaking right about now.

Runner1018 wrote:

It takes 7-10 years to peak at the marathon, and if she wasn't training intensely during the years she was having kids, then it makes sense she would be peaking right about now.

It’s her rate of progresssion in a Olympic off year, with little doping checks in place. Getting close to peak fitness should mean that the rate of return decreases. That 8 minute pr seems aided somehow

imagine stalking someones strava to try and prove that they are lying about having a job.

Just Curious - why was this rationale (see below) acceptable for the case of Lisa Stublic Nemec... and, yet, nobody is questioning D'Amato... Haven't we seen enough over the years in endurance sports. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, swims like a duck - it's probably a duck! No way is this CLEAN.... Agree with Sorry, not Sorry, but sorry!

Rojo's response

6 years ago 11/03/2015 1:52pm CST re: Houserocker

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Houserocker wrote:

In retrospect, it looks blindingly obvious - half-decent collegiate

runner

moves to Croatia, becomes world class - that just screams doping.

Really, anybody improving massively that late in their career draws suspicion. Maybe if they barely trained in college, then suddenly dedicated their lives to running, it would be plausible. But to be honest, I've barely heard of Lisa Nemec, and had no idea she had a prior identity as an unremarkable US collegiate athlete. I can see how she flew under the radar for most people.

The main lesson I take from this case, though, is that I'm really impressed at how effective those drugs (EPO presumably?) were! That's quite a transformation. I'm a guy, not very fast in college, but a fair chunk faster than Nemec's college times for 5k/10k. I trained pretty hard for the marathon, and my best was low 2:30s. I would have loved to hit a 2:25, and was nowhere near doing it. That's some powerful stuff.

Great post.

I hadn't thought of it that way (in comparing it to men's times). Her marathon PB is almost as good as mine. I'd like to think I'd at least have been able to dominate the Ivy League women's competition if I'd run collegiately.

And yes, she wasn't some non-running Kenyan who picked up the sport at age 20.

-Rojo

Maybe one reason you'd never heard of her was her name in college and US HS was Lisa Stublic but then again most 16:30 collegians aren't big house hold names.

bill rodgers

Many people are questioning D'Amato, that's like the title of the thread...

Still, Keira is 100% clean. You're just a negative Nelly if you think otherwise.

SpeedQuest seems to be questioning why it's only anonymous message board posters questioning d'Amato, and not the principals of this website along with other known members of the running media. It's only running's Unabomber Kevin Beck putting it out there, albeit with pickled-brain logic. One of this site's co-founders clearly did so to someone else with a similar progression in the above citation (btw good find, SpeedQuest), so why the deafening silence now? Looks like a clear bias applied chiefly if not solely to people who aren't white and/or people who aren't Americans.

casual obsever wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

I'm familiar with your performance theories, but none of this seems to fit the women's marathon performances.

I didn't mention any theories, just stated some relevant, well established facts, which include women's marathon performances.

I also stated relevant, well established facts.

Gentleman Savage wrote:

made bed wrote:

Many people are questioning D'Amato, that's like the title of the thread...

Still, Keira is 100% clean. You're just a negative Nelly if you think otherwise.

SpeedQuest seems to be questioning why it's only anonymous message board posters questioning d'Amato, and not the principals of this website along with other known members of the running media. It's only running's Unabomber Kevin Beck putting it out there, albeit with pickled-brain logic. One of this site's co-founders clearly did so to someone else with a similar progression in the above citation (btw good find, SpeedQuest), so why the deafening silence now? Looks like a clear bias applied chiefly if not solely to people who aren't white and/or people who aren't Americans.

I'll concede that the Brojos definitely are going to give the benefit of the doubt to an American athlete over a foreigner every day of the week, but I don't see this as any kind of evidence to suspect D'Amato of doping.

As many have pointed out, the American record in the women's marathon SHOULD be 2:19 or faster. The half marathon record should be 65 or faster. The only people that find 2:19:12 beyond their belief are those who don't understand how that time stacks up.

Going into the race, D'Amato was the 7th fastest marathoner in US history (8th if you count Des's Boston). Faster than Sisson, faster than Bates, faster than Goucher, faster than Seidel, faster than Huddle, faster than Tuliamuk.

If Seidel runs the AR in one of her next marathons, will you call foul? She has further to go now than D'Amato took off in Houston.

Would you have been surprised if Goucher broke the AR back in 2012? That would be a more drastic jump than D'Amato.

She was proven before Houston. The AR was not a shock to anyone paying attention.

There are two different things going on here. Lack of inquiry and speculation into a certainly suspicious progression from running media and record ripeness. Don't conflate D'Amato going from sub-2:23 to 2:19 with the fishiness of the jump prior to that.

I agree that the AR should be a lot lower and should have fallen well before this point. Especially given that the VF4% and facsimiles were on the ground for years prior to COVID shutdown. With her pedigree and advantages, Hasay should have taken it and certainly gave it a go. Maybe she just didn't get perfect enough conditions or whatever. I guess we should also consider Hasay's decent college career prior to her jump to world class marathoner, but then we do have a clear picture of the coach and group that assisted her progression.

D'Amato's suspect progression jump didn't happen between TMP '21 and Houston '22. It happened between the '20 OT and TMP '20, or maybe between Berlin '19 and TMP '20. That would be the gap when athletes were universally assured of being left alone by testing agencies for months on end. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.