Hockers 6th place is more impressive than Centros gold

Bike Moit wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

"Nobody makes a race strategy hoping that perfect execution will result in a 6th place finish, nobody."

Of course they do. It's a fact that Hocker could not have won a medal. Assuming you were ever a competitive distance runner, did you always go for the win and were cool with everyone and their brother passing you at the end of the race?

What are you talking about? Not trying to compete because you're worried about getting passed at the end of the race? What kind of nonsense is that. Really??

So here's a question? Which is a better put yourself in the race and fade to 6th or never be in the race and kick to 6th.

The way he ran was close to an even overall pace which is going to result in the best possible placement. You're going for broke approach would result in a positive split significant enough to put him much farther back.

I don't see why you believe chasing an impossible goal is preferable to running as well as he possibly could.

I agree. I’ve posted so many times prior to the Olympics that the current crop of runners learned from Mo and Centro.

I’ve watched that 1500 numerous times. It’s almost like Jakob and P. Tim had some type of agreement to make the pace fast and not leave it to an inferior runner with a better kick.

As Cheptegei stated I have a better kick off a fast pace, than a slow pace.

Jakob and P. Tim must have felt that way, because they had a better kick off the fast pace than Hocker did.

As a matter of fact they did actually make an agreement to carry the field through at a fast pace, with each of them sharing the duty of rabbitting.

Ofc in hingsight Tim was tactically disadvantaged bc the pacing duties were not split evenly, but the goal was clearly to guarantee they'd both get 1 and 2, and they did that. So whatever

OozmaKappa wrote:

As a matter of fact they did actually make an agreement to carry the field through at a fast pace, with each of them sharing the duty of rabbitting.

Ofc in hingsight Tim was tactically disadvantaged bc the pacing duties were not split evenly, but the goal was clearly to guarantee they'd both get 1 and 2, and they did that. So whatever

That would be unheard of to make such an agreement. Do you have a link to an article where one of them said that?

Spot on. Idk why Centro fanbois fail to see it.

Centro didnt win bc he did some gigabrain 4D chess. His plan is dumb and should not have worked bc it relies on everyone else making the stupidest decisions possible. Centros win condition was essentially for everyone else to throw. It's a case where you dont know who to be more mad at, the fraudulent winner or his competitors who were stupid enough to allow the only scenario in which they lose to play out right before their eyes.

These slow, """"tactical"""" races are anything but strategic. It's pure hubris, to sit back and let the race play out with the confidence that youre so much better than the leaders that you can overtake them in the final lap despite them holding an advantageous position at the front.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

As a matter of fact they did actually make an agreement to carry the field through at a fast pace, with each of them sharing the duty of rabbitting.

Ofc in hingsight Tim was tactically disadvantaged bc the pacing duties were not split evenly, but the goal was clearly to guarantee they'd both get 1 and 2, and they did that. So whatever

That would be unheard of to make such an agreement. Do you have a link to an article where one of them said that?

I’d be interested in seeing that too, since I think he’s just making stuff up.

OozmaKappa wrote:

Spot on. Idk why Centro fanbois fail to see it.

Centro didnt win bc he did some gigabrain 4D chess. His plan is dumb and should not have worked bc it relies on everyone else making the stupidest decisions possible. Centros win condition was essentially for everyone else to throw. It's a case where you dont know who to be more mad at, the fraudulent winner or his competitors who were stupid enough to allow the only scenario in which they lose to play out right before their eyes.

These slow, """"tactical"""" races are anything but strategic. It's pure hubris, to sit back and let the race play out with the confidence that youre so much better than the leaders that you can overtake them in the final lap despite them holding an advantageous position at the front.

He won the Gold Medal and that's all that matters.

fujimaster wrote:

Is my high school 4:38 dual meet win more impressive than the guy that get 5th at state in a loaded field with a time of 4:12? Absolutely not.

Your post is straight gold.

Im number 1 in my house. More impressive than Cheruiyot's silver.

Gold is the only thing that matters 😎

Yes he did win. But the OP's post is whether this is more impressive than Hocker's 6th placing.

It's not, because it's not that impressive at all.

Kinda like Steven Bradbury's gold medal in 2002:

OozmaKappa wrote:

As a matter of fact they did actually make an agreement to carry the field through at a fast pace, with each of them sharing the duty of rabbitting.

Ofc in hingsight Tim was tactically disadvantaged bc the pacing duties were not split evenly, but the goal was clearly to guarantee they'd both get 1 and 2, and they did that. So whatever

Gjert Ingebrigtsen strongly denies that. So, Ad Fontes.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Bike Moit wrote:

What are you talking about? Not trying to compete because you're worried about getting passed at the end of the race? What kind of nonsense is that. Really??

So here's a question? Which is a better put yourself in the race and fade to 6th or never be in the race and kick to 6th.

The way he ran was close to an even overall pace which is going to result in the best possible placement. You're going for broke approach would result in a positive split significant enough to put him much farther back.

I don't see why you believe chasing an impossible goal is preferable to running as well as he possibly could.

……….because the only goal at the Olympics is to medal. There are no finishers medals.

No offense, but you’re making it quite clear you’re not a winner…those who don’t aim to win at championship meets are also-rans, which is the disproving point of this thread. If you never ran to win, the race simply can’t be more impressive than an Olympic gold. This is not really debatable….

Swedish Pride wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

He won the Gold Medal and that's all that matters.

Yes he did win. But the OP's post is whether this is more impressive than Hocker's 6th placing.

It's not, because it's not that impressive at all.

Kinda like Steven Bradbury's gold medal in 2002:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DfAADWfJO2qM&ved=2ahUKEwiuksn1zajyAhWBlFwKHVPNBV4QwqsBegQIFRAD&usg=AOvVaw3Sl6zwA7tIbwKrrrZ15SPp&cshid=1628672604062

This is outrageous and insulting. Centro’s competition didn’t crash out, trip, or quit. He BEAT THEM. He BEAT the best in the world, when they were peaking.

You are a turd, and a troll.

Runnerofruns wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

The way he ran was close to an even overall pace which is going to result in the best possible placement. You're going for broke approach would result in a positive split significant enough to put him much farther back.

I don't see why you believe chasing an impossible goal is preferable to running as well as he possibly could.

……….because the only goal at the Olympics is to medal. There are no finishers medals.

No offense, but you’re making it quite clear you’re not a winner…those who don’t aim to win at championship meets are also-rans, which is the disproving point of this thread. If you never ran to win, the race simply can’t be more impressive than an Olympic gold. This is not really debatable….

No offense, but you're making it clear you never ran competitive track. Hocker ran as well as he possibly could, ran a PR and he now knows how he stacks up against the big boys. A crash and burn, which was 100% guaranteed using your strategy, would have been worthless and all he could have done was to put it out of his mind as quickly as possible.

One of my coaches at SDSU ran in Jim Ryun's first 3:51 and told us Ryun was right in front of him with a lap go. He considered trying to pass him but he was glad he didn't. Even without taking on Ryun on, he said the last 220 really hurt and pushing harder during the penultimate 220 would have been a disaster for him. Instead, he ran a PR and placed second.

You make it sound like Hocker could have gone for a medal and somehow outran his ability but it's a mathematical certainty it would have ended badly for him.

Why are people taking this weak bait? It's no contest - this doesn't justify an argument.

under a bridge wrote:

Why are people taking this weak bait? It's no contest - this doesn't justify an argument.

Only a sith or Centro fanboy thinks in absolute.

Swedish Pride wrote:

under a bridge wrote:

Why are people taking this weak bait? It's no contest - this doesn't justify an argument.

Only a sith or Centro fanboy thinks in absolute.

Nice one nerd.

No offense, but you're making it clear you never ran competitive track. Hocker ran as well as he possibly could, ran a PR and he now knows how he stacks up against the big boys. A crash and burn, which was 100% guaranteed using your strategy, would have been worthless and all he could have done was to put it out of his mind as quickly as possible.

One of my coaches at SDSU ran in Jim Ryun's first 3:51 and told us Ryun was right in front of him with a lap go. He considered trying to pass him but he was glad he didn't. Even without taking on Ryun on, he said the last 220 really hurt and pushing harder during the penultimate 220 would have been a disaster for him. Instead, he ran a PR and placed second.

You make it sound like Hocker could have gone for a medal and somehow outran his ability but it's a mathematical certainty it would have ended badly for him.[/quote]

I in fact did run competitively, in the 1500 and the mile. Now I’m old, but in my heyday I looked at people with your attitude and knew I’d beat them in championships, and (usually) did. You sound scared to test your limits. I was never good enough to make a US team, but I sure as hell went for it with the best of my ability.

I would argue that Cole actually DIDN’T run as well as he possibly could. Look at how well he still closed, passing 3 men on the last lap. He hit 1100 in 9th/10th, and had to run a significant chunk of the last lap in lane 2 or outside of 1. He cost himself 3-5m that lap alone. A more aggressive race would have him near Kerr/Wightman/Mechaal from the start.

Would he have died badly? Maybe! Would he have been able to close with Kerr with that prodigious kick and bag a medal? MAYBE! With his talent, we still don’t know. There is no “certainty” or “100%” about it. Until you’ve over-cooked it, you don’t ever know your true limit, and this is where it’s obvious you haven’t “gone for it” like champions do.

My point is that this is the Olympics, not your love USATF throwdown. If I was in his position (I was never quite good enough to make any US teams), I would sure hope I made another Olympic team. But if he doesn’t, he may always be kicking himself wondering what might have been. My 1500 PR was in a fast championship race, and I went balls out from the start and was rewarded with the PR despite fading in the last 200 to 4th. I also had 2 other races in PR shape where I went out at similar pace and faded badly. For me, it was worth the risk to go for it.

Again, the point of the Olympics is to medal!!!

The bottom line here is this. What is the ultimate measure of success? The goal is to win. Period.

Anytime some runs a fast time, the immediate thought is about what this means for future racing potential. As in, "Damn I just dropped a 9:06 - I just may be able to win at at state!"

It's not the other way around. Centro's Oly gold is the pinnacle of our sport. Nothing suprasses it. Stop comparing lesser "golds" - JV races or household champions - this is the Olympics.

Hocker's 3:31 suggests he might someday be able to achieve what Centro did in Rio. Centro's result is Hocker's new goal.

Centro didn't walk off the Rio track thinking "Man, now I can go run 3:31 and get 6th somewhere!"

Instead, he dropped the mic on the running world. The dude was Oly champ, and nothing surpasses that. Sorry.