Maka wrote:
You nailed it Anne!
Doping is illegal when you take performance enhancing drugs but perfectly legal when taking suppressant drugs to lower your otherwise "natural" performance.
The hypocrisy stinks!!
Its not hypocrisy, these are men trying to run in women's events. They have male body organs.
Inside the doping hotspot of Ethiopia: dodgy testing and EPO ...
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Not Surprised At All wrote:
Intersex athletes are banned from competing in women's events between the 400 to 1 mile unless they reduce their testosterone levels.
So now World Athletics has confirmed something that many people suspected. Mboma and Masilingi are both intersex. They will be allowed to compete only in the 200 (but not the 400) in the Olympics, as per existing World Athletics rules on intersex athletes with high testosterone.
Actually, the current WA restrictions do not apply apply to all intersex/DSD athletes. They apply only to DSD athletes with male sex chromosomes; testes, not ovaries; male levels of T, not T levels in the much, much lower normal female range; and male-typical sensitivity to T.
The DSD athletes who have jeopardized fairness in women's sports & caused concern all have DSDs that occur only in persons with male sex chromosomes & testes. There has never been an issue of any kind in women's sports about DSD athletes with female chromosomes & ovaries who have DSDs affecting female persons, such as MRKH or classic CAH.
DSD athletes with female sex chromosomes & ovaries are not subject to WA's current DSD restrictions on testosterone. Same goes for female people who have conditions such as PCOS that result in "high levels of T" for women or "hyperandrogenism."
Women who have "higher than normal testosterone" for female people or hyperandrogenism still do not have T levels that come close to male levels.
ex-runner wrote:
Semenya for example would never run 3:51 like Hassan. Or 29:01. There is clearly no advantage to more testosterone in events over 1000m. Many, many factors go into making a distance athlete.
Every time you think letsrun can't find a dumber post, we get a new contender. Some day we there will be an intersex runner who is a 5000m runner not an 800m one and they will run a fast time. Test is a great drug for distance guys. Go talk to any masters runner about what happened to their performances as test levels dropped.
Let's be clear that the reason the rule is written isn't because people think there is no advantage in the other events. It is because the IAAF has limited studies and can only prove it for the small range of events.
we dont know for a fact that mboma is xy,and we dont know what her condition is.if anything,i think shes xx, a biological woman,who happens to have way more testosterone than is normal for a woman.she didnt pass the testosterone test,but not all intersex people are the same.for all we know shes possibly able to have children,which would make her xx.
RunRagged wrote:
Not Surprised At All wrote:
Intersex athletes are banned from competing in women's events between the 400 to 1 mile unless they reduce their testosterone levels.
So now World Athletics has confirmed something that many people suspected. Mboma and Masilingi are both intersex. They will be allowed to compete only in the 200 (but not the 400) in the Olympics, as per existing World Athletics rules on intersex athletes with high testosterone.
Actually, the current WA restrictions do not apply apply to all intersex/DSD athletes. They apply only to DSD athletes with male sex chromosomes; testes, not ovaries; male levels of T, not T levels in the much, much lower normal female range; and male-typical sensitivity to T.
The DSD athletes who have jeopardized fairness in women's sports & caused concern all have DSDs that occur only in persons with male sex chromosomes & testes. There has never been an issue of any kind in women's sports about DSD athletes with female chromosomes & ovaries who have DSDs affecting female persons, such as MRKH or classic CAH.
DSD athletes with female sex chromosomes & ovaries are not subject to WA's current DSD restrictions on testosterone. Same goes for female people who have conditions such as PCOS that result in "high levels of T" for women or "hyperandrogenism."
Women who have "higher than normal testosterone" for female people or hyperandrogenism still do not have T levels that come close to male levels.
Thank you, very helpful.
This post was removed.
She looks just like her mom, who is white. Check the trials video.
Wow, racist much? Why does this always come down to black vs white with you Americans? Jeez, take a break from your obsession with race a have a look at her trials video, particularly the intro. I don’t have to see her (white or green or blue.) mother to observe she’s taken on some extremely mannish characteristics since her teens. Could be just the training or other ‘things’ widening the jaw line significantly.
Another hypothesis is that she found out recently about her condition and is complying with the 6 month rule on testosterone suppression in DSD XY males to compete against women. It could also explain why she moved down to the 100m Hurdles for such a long time. The 100m hurdles isn’t covered by the XY DSD ban.
Just a hypothesis, but it could also explain quite a lot, particularly the appearance.
Or, maybe it’s just drugs causimy the shift in appearance - drugs like every other elite athlete seems to be on these days!
jeff tallon wrote:
we dont know for a fact that mboma is xy,and we dont know what her condition is.if anything,i think shes xx, a biological woman,who happens to have way more testosterone than is normal for a woman.she didnt pass the testosterone test,but not all intersex people are the same.for all we know shes possibly able to have children,which would make her xx.
Mboma's - & Masilingi's - level of testosterone has made them ineligible for the women's 400m but still eligible for the women's 100 & 200m because they are subject to World Athletics' so-called "Semenya rules." These rules put restrictions on the T levels of athletes competing in women's middle-distance events only if the athletes meet ALL the following criteria: 46,XY sex chromosomes, not XX chromosomes; testes, not ovaries; male levels of T, not T in the far lower female range; & male-typical sensitivity to T.
If WA hadn't already determined Mboma's & Masilingi's sex & medical status, & ascertained that they are XY DSD with testes, then the Semenya rules wouldn't apply to them.
https://www.worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reghttps://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christine-mboma-beatrice-masilingi-testosterone/RunRagged wrote:
jeff tallon wrote:
we dont know for a fact that mboma is xy,and we dont know what her condition is.if anything,i think shes xx, a biological woman,who happens to have way more testosterone than is normal for a woman.she didnt pass the testosterone test,but not all intersex people are the same.for all we know shes possibly able to have children,which would make her xx.
Mboma's - & Masilingi's - level of testosterone has made them ineligible for the women's 400m but still eligible for the women's 100 & 200m because they are subject to World Athletics' so-called "Semenya rules." These rules put restrictions on the T levels of athletes competing in women's middle-distance events only if the athletes meet ALL the following criteria: 46,XY sex chromosomes, not XX chromosomes; testes, not ovaries; male levels of T, not T in the far lower female range; & male-typical sensitivity to T.
If WA hadn't already determined Mboma's & Masilingi's sex & medical status, & ascertained that they are XY DSD with testes, then the Semenya rules wouldn't apply to them.
https://www.worldathletics.org/news/press-release/questions-answers-iaaf-female-eligibility-reghttps://olympics.nbcsports.com/2021/07/02/namibia-400-christine-mboma-beatrice-masilingi-testosterone/
Maybe the Namibians withdrew from the 400 preemptively to avoid being tested for testes, etc.?
Nevermind, just read the article and they were tested. The article was obscure in not mentioning DSD or presence of XY.
Surely the U20 record will not be ratified?
justastupido wrote:
Wow, racist much? Why does this always come down to black vs white with you Americans? Jeez, take a break from your obsession with race a have a look at her trials video, particularly the intro. I don’t have to see her (white or green or blue.) mother to observe she’s taken on some extremely mannish characteristics since her teens. Could be just the training or other ‘things’ widening the jaw line significantly.
Another hypothesis is that she found out recently about her condition and is complying with the 6 month rule on testosterone suppression in DSD XY males to compete against women. It could also explain why she moved down to the 100m Hurdles for such a long time. The 100m hurdles isn’t covered by the XY DSD ban.
Just a hypothesis, but it could also explain quite a lot, particularly the appearance.
Or, maybe it’s just drugs causimy the shift in appearance - drugs like every other elite athlete seems to be on these days!
Or it could just be simple genetics. Look at her mom and then look at her. Do you think her mom is doping as well?
july 4th weekend wrote:
justastupido wrote:
Wow, racist much? Why does this always come down to black vs white with you Americans? Jeez, take a break from your obsession with race a have a look at her trials video, particularly the intro. I don’t have to see her (white or green or blue.) mother to observe she’s taken on some extremely mannish characteristics since her teens. Could be just the training or other ‘things’ widening the jaw line significantly.
Another hypothesis is that she found out recently about her condition and is complying with the 6 month rule on testosterone suppression in DSD XY males to compete against women. It could also explain why she moved down to the 100m Hurdles for such a long time. The 100m hurdles isn’t covered by the XY DSD ban.
Just a hypothesis, but it could also explain quite a lot, particularly the appearance.
Or, maybe it’s just drugs causimy the shift in appearance - drugs like every other elite athlete seems to be on these days!
Or it could just be simple genetics. Look at her mom and then look at her. Do you think her mom is doping as well?
FYI, testing women for high levels of testosterone is already done as part of their regular drug tests.
If Sydney Mclaughlin, or any other woman for that matter, had high testosterone levels, they would find that out as soon as they start running fast enough to compete on a world class level, which subjects them to drug testing.
So McLaughlin would have found out back in the 2016 Olympics.
justastupido wrote:
Gonna put this one out there..Sydney McLaughlin is really starting to look extremely mannish. Face, jaw, throat bump. When younger, she looked quite feminine ( but then, so do a lot of adolescent boys before the T really hits..).. her makeup is making her look like a tranny and doesn’t hide the wide jawline or shoulders.
Maybe it’s just drugs..-anyway, I agree with several posters that testing for the XY DSD condition should be much more widespread …
Are you nuts or are you a refugee from Stormfront?
The Song Remains the Same wrote:
justastupido wrote:
Gonna put this one out there..Sydney McLaughlin is really starting to look extremely mannish. Face, jaw, throat bump. When younger, she looked quite feminine ( but then, so do a lot of adolescent boys before the T really hits..).. her makeup is making her look like a tranny and doesn’t hide the wide jawline or shoulders.
Maybe it’s just drugs..-anyway, I agree with several posters that testing for the XY DSD condition should be much more widespread …
Are you nuts or are you a refugee from Stormfront?
Justastupido wins the award for most accurate screen name.
Things that make you go "Hmmm" wrote:
Nevermind, just read the article and they were tested. The article was obscure in not mentioning DSD or presence of XY.
Surely the U20 record will not be ratified?
No. A record can't be ratified by someone who isn't eligible.
Things that make you go "Hmmm" wrote:
Maybe the Namibians withdrew from the 400 preemptively to avoid being tested for testes, etc.?
Just so everyone is clear on how the Eligibility list works, it doesn't list athletes who have ENTERED the Olympics. It is simply a list of who is ELIGIBLE to enter the Olympics.
For example, there are some athletes on the eligibility list who are eligible in a particular event, even though they aren't even running that event this year.
An individual athlete can't withdraw himself or herself from the eligibility list. Only World Athletics can take someone off. So if World Athletics all of a sudden takes someone's name off, that's a big deal.
Not Surprised At All wrote:
Things that make you go "Hmmm" wrote:
Maybe the Namibians withdrew from the 400 preemptively to avoid being tested for testes, etc.?
An individual athlete can't withdraw himself or herself from the eligibility list. Only World Athletics can take someone off. So if World Athletics all of a sudden takes someone's name off, that's a big deal.
In view of all the complaints, challenges & lawsuits the IAAF/WA has been fielding since the 1980s from XY DSD athletes intent on establishing or proving their "right" to participate in women's sports, I suspect that when WA uses the "Semenya rules" to declare an athlete ineligible in a certain events nowadays, it's not done lightly. WA presumably is on solid legal grounds when making these decisions.
RunRagged wrote:
Actually, the current WA restrictions do not apply apply to all intersex/DSD athletes. They apply only to DSD athletes with male sex chromosomes; testes, not ovaries; male levels of T, not T levels in the much, much lower normal female range; and male-typical sensitivity to T.
The DSD athletes who have jeopardized fairness in women's sports & caused concern all have DSDs that occur only in persons with male sex chromosomes & testes. There has never been an issue of any kind in women's sports about DSD athletes with female chromosomes & ovaries who have DSDs affecting female persons, such as MRKH or classic CAH.
It is unacceptable that biological women are required to compete against athletes with male chromosomes. The way this story is reported on in the news is equally unacceptable and the overwhelming focus on "natural testosterone" is disingenuous.
These athletes and their coach were set to game the system. By holding back at the beginning of races, to only go full out starting halfway through, they wanted to appear to be competing on an equal footing.
The outcry of "racism" is just a distraction and serves to obfuscate the actual issue. Clearly, the only real victims here are the biological women competing against these athletes.