HOBBS MF KESSLER breaks NCAA record!! Wait, he's in HS. 3:34.36!!!!

Polraider wrote:

Nick Willis said that the new spikes helps, but he runs very, very slow this year. What proof is that? Nick is slower than ever in the new spikes.

Give him a break. He had a bad race but remember he is 38 now. He is not a 3:29 guy anymore he knows and accepts this but yet he continues to compete. Stop all the negativity

sbboH wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

2 things.

1) It is possible that the shoes give 1-1.5 seconds AND this is the best prep performance of all time. The inability to understand that these 2 things can exist on the same plane of existence is strange. The shoe brigade is like any other nut job group who can’t help but steer literally every topic in that direction regardless of how germane it is to the conversation.

I'm one of the ones that say boing, boing, boing and agree with rojo on the obvious effects of the new shoes and spikes on time, but I also agree with you that this could very well be still better than Webb's 3:53. So, no, not all of the shoe brigade are nut jobs.

Reference:

Further reference:

Obviously Webb's 2001 shoes and track surface is light years beyond what Ryun ran in and on.

Reference Kessler 2021:

The difference in shoes and tracks between Ryun era and Webb era is vast.

The difference in shoes and tracks between Webb era and Kessler era is miniscule by comparison

A fantastic performance!

Where does it fit in with the past and recent past?

So many records are being set with advancements in technology that it is hard to keep up

with what some of it means. From what I have seen recently performances are improving

somewhere around 1 second per lap. This is rough but somewhere around there.

Does this mean that Webb would have run sub 3:50 mile in H.S.? maybe

Does this mean that Jim Ryan would have run even faster, who knows...Does it even matter.

3:34 is not something we are likely to see for another decade or more from a H.S. runner.

We will likely see at the Olympics that ALL athletes will be running faster than before.

Tactical 5000m races run in 13:00 flat for the win will now be coming in at 12:50. I will not be surprised to see a sub 27:00 10,000 meter finish to be well outside of the medals.

DontForgetTheShoes wrote:

zcxvzxcv wrote:

That's hard hitting journalism for you. The kid drops a six second pr in a crowded field, looking great at the end, dusting Webb's converted 1500m time by 2 seconds and crushing Jim Ryun's 56 year old American junior 1500m record by 2 seconds as well, going 3 tenths under the new in-season collegiate record, and all we see are six reasons this isn't as good as Webb. It is every bit as good as Webb and then some. This was a rare American race with the field going faster than 3:35, but then so was that Pre mile with El Guerrouj, Bernard Lagat, and Alan Webb. The spikes are not having a measurable impact, in contrast to the road shoes. This kid is the future, and maybe he'll even make the finals at the Trials.

Super shoes and super spikes are real. Hobbes isn't in a separate universe.

I looked through the men's and women's top 100 in the NCAA D1 for 800/1500/5000/10000 in 2021, 2019, and 2018. There were essentially no differences at the top or bottom. I looked through the men's and women's NCAA D3 qualifiers in the 800/1500/5000/10000 for 2021/2019/2018 as well and there were no differences there either. There is no evidence that these spikes are advantageous. By contrast, there is a ton of evidence to show that the bouncy road shoes make a big difference.

I agree there’s not convincing evidence to suggest these shoes provide any advantage. Me thinks rojo is just trying to hype them so more runners buy them, and a lot of people are falling for the marketing.

I just don’t understand the bro love for Webb on LR. He had sky high potential and never really realized that. His AR mile was just as staged and setup as the Breaking 2 marathons that this crowd loves to say aren’t that great. No Olympic medals, while Centro has gold.

USA is finally producing some outstanding young runners with medal potential, and all we hear on this site are shoes blah blah blah. If it’s the shoes, please prove it with actual evidence. A lab test of two people is not evidence for what you claim. So come up with real evidence that demonstrates the shoe magic or please shut up about it.

Webb didn't come close to a world or Olympic medal. Too early to say if he'll survive burn out.

No words to describe how good this is. Kessler is off the charts right now. His 3:57.6i and his 3:34.36 are most significantly faster than Webb's marks. He's also run 8:39y alone and could probably go 8:30y if he gives it a go this month. Love the way he closes down races; late speed is priceless and HK has it. To go .65 UNDER the NCAA mark is hard to fathom. The fact that he is a true HS senior (18 yrs old) is icing on the cake. I'm expecting US Junior records at 1000, 1500, mile, 3k and 2 mile. The Fernandez 13:25.4 5000 mark may hold up, but who knows?

TheRealScotty wrote:

No words to describe how good this is. Kessler is off the charts right now. His 3:57.6i and his 3:34.36 are most significantly faster than Webb's marks. He's also run 8:39y alone and could probably go 8:30y if he gives it a go this month. Love the way he closes down races; late speed is priceless and HK has it. To go .65 UNDER the NCAA mark is hard to fathom. The fact that he is a true HS senior (18 yrs old) is icing on the cake. I'm expecting US Junior records at 1000, 1500, mile, 3k and 2 mile. The Fernandez 13:25.4 5000 mark may hold up, but who knows?

Fernandez already lost his 5000 record to Nico Young.

Kessler did not run the 8:39 alone. He drafted off Gavin Sherry until the last lap (or maybe 2?) and then kicked.

Some people have a problem seeing Webb surpassed...especially by a wide margin. I think Kessler is fantastic. Just what we needed. Not saying he is Jacob (who is?) but this is exciting. Webb ran some great stuff, but not this fast. To some, this is disconcerting.

birdbeard2 wrote:

TheRealScotty wrote:

No words to describe how good this is. Kessler is off the charts right now. His 3:57.6i and his 3:34.36 are most significantly faster than Webb's marks. He's also run 8:39y alone and could probably go 8:30y if he gives it a go this month. Love the way he closes down races; late speed is priceless and HK has it. To go .65 UNDER the NCAA mark is hard to fathom. The fact that he is a true HS senior (18 yrs old) is icing on the cake. I'm expecting US Junior records at 1000, 1500, mile, 3k and 2 mile. The Fernandez 13:25.4 5000 mark may hold up, but who knows?

Fernandez already lost his 5000 record to Nico Young.

Kessler did not run the 8:39 alone. He drafted off Gavin Sherry until the last lap (or maybe 2?) and then kicked.

Yes. Forgot the great run by Young. 13:24.7. Same holds true for that slightly faster mark. As for the 8:39y, I thought Kessler was alone last 800m, and was far gone by the line. My point was that he was not in a pressed race. Not hoovered to a mark like, say, Rupp in the 8:03.6 race. I would expect him to run about 8:30y if he gave it a go. Just speculation. His 15/mile speed would indicate that (to me)

TheRealScotty wrote:

birdbeard2 wrote:

Fernandez already lost his 5000 record to Nico Young.

Kessler did not run the 8:39 alone. He drafted off Gavin Sherry until the last lap (or maybe 2?) and then kicked.

Yes. Forgot the great run by Young. 13:24.7. Same holds true for that slightly faster mark. As for the 8:39y, I thought Kessler was alone last 800m, and was far gone by the line. My point was that he was not in a pressed race. Not hoovered to a mark like, say, Rupp in the 8:03.6 race. I would expect him to run about 8:30y if he gave it a go. Just speculation. His 15/mile speed would indicate that (to me)

I think he would be more in the range of 8:25y, maybe even faster. If he’s in 3:51 mile shape I would think he could run 2 4:10s.

7:45-7:55 shape for 3000.

Agreed. He jogged the first 7 laps of that 8:39. Hence the 54.9 last 400m, putting what, 70m on 2nd place?

Knowing you can now run low 3:5X in the mile must make 4:12 pace feel like a tempo, no?

igg wrote:

If you aren't into rock climbing, let me explain how much of a god this kid is. He is rock climbing at a level that is roughly equivalent to a sub 4:00 mile (5.14+). One of the most genetically gifted people of all time perhaps.

I do both sports (PBs of 5.13d and 3:51 1500) and can vouch for this extreme range in athletic ability. This isn't like being good at say, running and cycling, it is domination among his peers in a vast array of skills and ability.

Ingebrigtsen ran 3:31 a month shy of his 18th, Kessler just ran 3:34 a month after turning 18. That said, Jakob had about five-six years of pro-level runup at the point where Hobbs has had less than one. Kessler could conceivably be the better, at least at 1500, in three years time.

igg wrote:

If you aren't into rock climbing, let me explain how much of a god this kid is. He is rock climbing at a level that is roughly equivalent to a sub 4:00 mile (5.14+). One of the most genetically gifted people of all time perhaps.

can you please expound on this? and his rock climbing career?

All I know is the 1500 at the trials is going to be incredibly exciting with all these youngins running so fast. Let’s just let things play out before we starting putting expectations of Olympic gold on anybody. Let the athlete make an Olympic team first.

nah wrote:

Polraider wrote:

Nick Willis said that the new spikes helps, but he runs very, very slow this year. What proof is that? Nick is slower than ever in the new spikes.

Nick's 1500m best last year in the old spikes was 3:41.62. This year it's 3:37.53.

What spikes do you race in polraider?

The last year was pandemic season and Willis raced only in February and March (and one slow race in the summer). Two years ago he did 3:36,99 wearing the old spikes. Now he did 3:38,93, being older but wearing "super" spikes. I see no difference here.

As for me, I race in the old Adidas MD spikes, the same Rudisha used in 2012. They were enough for 1:40, should be enought for me. I shouud have the new Adidas spikes soon, will check the difference personally.

I do not believe in all this "super" spikes theory.