Editor's note on 7/1/2024- This 3-year-old thread is getting a lot of clicks as lots of people are googling Nikki Hiltz after NBC published an article "Transgender runner Nikki Hiltz is headed to the Paris Olympics" on her making the Olympic team. The article did not explain that Hiltz's is a biological female. Hiltz also is also not on testosterone as World Athletics forbids that.
Let it Rupp wrote:
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
So how does it work? Some days she will run in the men category and other days in the women category depending on how she feels that day?
I am not joking here, it’s a serious question.
I have a good feeling that her "female" days are going to conveniently fall on the days she races.
I doubt that. She sounds like a very honest and open person. Why would she do that? Will race organizers let her change at the last second however. I think they would.
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
Let it Rupp wrote:
I have a good feeling that her "female" days are going to conveniently fall on the days she races.
I doubt that. She sounds like a very honest and open person. Why would she do that? Will race organizers let her change at the last second however. I think they would.
...but yes, if she only enters women events this year, it would be statistically improbable. Like flipping heads 10X in a row. Now if she never enters a men event for the rest of her career, she is either lying about her condition (unlikely) or she is a cheater.
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
I doubt that. She sounds like a very honest and open person. Why would she do that? Will race organizers let her change at the last second however. I think they would.
...but yes, if she only enters women events this year, it would be statistically improbable. Like flipping heads 10X in a row. Now if she never enters a men event for the rest of her career, she is either lying about her condition (unlikely) or she is a cheater.
How would it be cheating if she competes in the women's division? What's her unfair advantage?
Obviously she's not going to change her mind at the last minute. A 4:01 1500 time will not get her into a DL men's race.
There would be no problem with her competing in the women's division. The issue is that this inadvertently proves that gender identity shouldn't ever be enough to get into the women's division. Nikki identifies as a man some of the time, but will compete against women all of the time.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
...but yes, if she only enters women events this year, it would be statistically improbable. Like flipping heads 10X in a row. Now if she never enters a men event for the rest of her career, she is either lying about her condition (unlikely) or she is a cheater.
How would it be cheating if she competes in the women's division? What's her unfair advantage?
Obviously she's not going to change her mind at the last minute. A 4:01 1500 time will not get her into a DL men's race.
Wait. Pick a side and stick to it. Otherwise, I give up. Dutee Chand competes as a woman because she identifies as a woman. Hiltz should compete as a woman when she identifies as a woman and as a man when she identifies as a man. Being competitive or not is not part of this equation.
If this is not the rule then someone at IAAF give me the f&$en rule...
...and stick to your rule.
Otherwise, I can make up my own rules too. Yes, here is my new rule. The start line in the 100m should be based on age. For every year after age 40, you get to start 2m ahead. If an official stops me. I will dispute it because it’s my rule and you are a bigot if you don’t agree with me.
We're living in clownworld. A few years ago she would just be a tomboy with some stereotypically masculine interests.
Now she is a they. Sometimes they wake up feeling like a man (an unfalsifiable claim) and other times a queen (an equally serious identity - do they go by the title Her Majesty on these particular days?).
I think the world is shifting their views on gender, and there are people who are really resistant to this idea.
It used to be that men who weren't stereotypically "masculine" and women who weren't stereotypically "feminine" chose to fight to be considered as men or as women. The messaging when I was growing up is that "girl" or "women" didn't mean just one thing, or that it didn't even mean femininity. Same for men. That was stressed. But the gender binary itself was very concrete.
Both men and women who fell out of the stereotypes of "men" and "women" fought tirelessly for space there. Many of these people were also LGB.
But the gender binary has moved. It has now expanded. Folks see less and less of a reason to even fight that hard to belong there in the first place, when they themselves don't even really feel connected to the binary itself.
The fact that so many of you have expressed such disdain at Nikki for choosing to come out and identify this way says a lot about you. Don't act like "you don't care" when you come on here to rant about it. You do care. This cultural shift bothers you. It flies in the face of everything you were told about the world and people in it. You dislike the diversity. Just admit it.
oh letsrun.. wrote:
I think the world is shifting their views on gender, and there are people who are really resistant to this idea.
It used to be that men who weren't stereotypically "masculine" and women who weren't stereotypically "feminine" chose to fight to be considered as men or as women. The messaging when I was growing up is that "girl" or "women" didn't mean just one thing, or that it didn't even mean femininity. Same for men. That was stressed. But the gender binary itself was very concrete.
Both men and women who fell out of the stereotypes of "men" and "women" fought tirelessly for space there. Many of these people were also LGB.
But the gender binary has moved. It has now expanded. Folks see less and less of a reason to even fight that hard to belong there in the first place, when they themselves don't even really feel connected to the binary itself.
The fact that so many of you have expressed such disdain at Nikki for choosing to come out and identify this way says a lot about you. Don't act like "you don't care" when you come on here to rant about it. You do care. This cultural shift bothers you. It flies in the face of everything you were told about the world and people in it. You dislike the diversity. Just admit it.
Sometimes diversity is a bad thing. If we grew up learning that 2 + 2 = 4, now some people think 2 + 2 is 3 or 5, that's diversity, but it's also incoherent.
...anyway, I am pretty sure that she came out as Trans in order to be able to run on the men events when she feels like a man. Imagine if you were forced to run in the woman race? You would feel completely out of place and like a complete fraud. I am assuming that she feels like that regularly.
Pert wrote:
Not good for Nikki ... facts over feelings..not feelings over facts
Just because I might want to go to the local diner eat a ton of food and dash with out paying doesn't make it right. If my wife has cancer and I feel like going to a hooker because I am frustrated... doesn't make it right. Nikki has no spiritual, emotional or physical compass presently.
What the hell does this mean? I've genuinely been trying to read this for the last five minutes and I still don't get it. You want to cheat on your wife who has cancer??
Anyway, I say good for Nikki. I don't see this being a real issue for competition since she's non-binary. Simple as.
There are 10 types of peoples. Those who know what binary is and the others
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
...anyway, I am pretty sure that she came out as Trans in order to be able to run on the men events when she feels like a man. Imagine if you were forced to run in the woman race? You would feel completely out of place and like a complete fraud. I am assuming that she feels like that regularly.
Again, she can't run in the men's race. A 4:01 will not get her to the starting line.
She seems like a young lady with a good sense of humor. I'll be she's pretty amused by this thread.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
...anyway, I am pretty sure that she came out as Trans in order to be able to run on the men events when she feels like a man. Imagine if you were forced to run in the woman race? You would feel completely out of place and like a complete fraud. I am assuming that she feels like that regularly.
Again, she can't run in the men's race. A 4:01 will not get her to the starting line.
?
I know plenty guys that never broke 4:00. There are plenty of races for 4:00 types.
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Again, she can't run in the men's race. A 4:01 will not get her to the starting line.
?
I know plenty guys that never broke 4:00. There are plenty of races for 4:00 types.
Some posters are saying that if she wakes up feeling like a guy she should run with the men. If one of those days was the WC final, should she go look for an all-comers meet? Would her sponsor be cool with that?
fools gonna be fooled wrote:
She seems like a young lady with a good sense of humor. I'll be she's pretty amused by this thread.
Letsrun is triggered!
SDSU Aztec wrote:
jgxdkgkcufk wrote:
?
I know plenty guys that never broke 4:00. There are plenty of races for 4:00 types.
Some posters are saying that if she wakes up feeling like a guy she should run with the men. If one of those days was the WC final, should she go look for an all-comers meet? Would her sponsor be cool with that?
Is he okay with competing in a gender category that he doesn't identify as?
bong hits for rojo wrote:
fools gonna be fooled wrote:
She seems like a young lady with a good sense of humor. I'll be she's pretty amused by this thread.
Letsrun is triggered!
I mean honestly for all the complaining conservatives do about how everyone is sensitive, watching people react to a thread in which someone comes out as nonbinary, a thing that doesn't affect them in the least is...breathtaking.
https://youtu.be/YSfw7Y-W3PU?t=76the first transgender wrote:
If Nikki feels like a man one day and a woman the next (or one of the other 100 or so genders out there), should we call her something different on each of those days?
fan of the 430 man wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Some posters are saying that if she wakes up feeling like a guy she should run with the men. If one of those days was the WC final, should she go look for an all-comers meet? Would her sponsor be cool with that?
Is he okay with competing in a gender category that he doesn't identify as?
It's her job, so yeah. Why do you care?