Tribute to 02:20 Marathon

Alfie wrote:

Hi Slava, your average hr on the easy runs are good.

Presumably you start off with a really low hr, and your hr will climb above the average. What is your max hr, typically on the easy runs?

Do you try to cap the max hr on an easy run, or are you only concentrating on pace?

My max hr during easy runs is usually not going more than 75% of max HR. 151 - it is high, but by feeling, I felt good during this 2 days run on land. Some muscles after treadmill do not work properly as we wanted.

During easy run I concentrate usually on hr, breeze and stable rythm, these 2 days while running I kept only pace as a feeling was good.

If pulse will be the same high, of course we will reduce pace.

42nd week (completed):

Mo: easy

Tu: rest

We: rest

Thu: easy

Sun: easy 60min @04:27, avg heart rate=148,

Still not ideal, but better than 2 days before. Muscles for downhill course are still suffering, probably need more time for adaptation after treadmill.

Pace consistency is better today.

Cadence is 182, stride length=1.23m, may be is too short?, but I cannot increase length for the moment, as lower part of quads are weak. I Keep high cadence in order to reduce load for muscles for adaptation period. We can discuss this, as I bought Garmin 935, before did not know my cadence and stride length. I am a tall guy - 186 cm.

Next week with Coach will decide regarding easy pace.

Week is completed, not as how we expected, but what to do :-)))

It’s been interesting watching your return to land on Strava. Today we actually ran almost exactly the same distance, at exactly the same pace with exactly the same HR strangely enough. Clearly the % Max HR differs but I did find it somewhat coincidental.

Do you suspect your treadmill calibration was off given what you have seen the last couple of days? I’ll be honest, I would expect these types of runs to be much much much faster and easier given you aren’t recovering from any harder sessions and have a 2:20 marathon target.

As others have said, I am now convinced you are real and am certainly rooting for you. I do think that 2:20 is extremely over-ambitious. If I was in your shoes I would be targeting 16:mid 5k, 34:mid 10k, 1:18 HM and 2:50 full or something along those lines.

highhoppingworm wrote:

As others have said, I am now convinced you are real and am certainly rooting for you.

On the other hand, Canefis ended his last message with a classic JS tell (that smiley thing), and did not reply to my question as to how he ended up with JS as a coach. Somehow there is always some weirdness whenever JS is involved; this was the case with Phil Richter as well. It does seem impossible that the GPS data could be faked.

Hi. I have faced with following issues:

0) treadmill was ok, but different working muscles.

1) muscles for downhill are completely not working after treadmill

2) on flat course pace much faster than on treadmill

3) breezing/cooling is easier outdoor.

4) Once I will adapt weak muscles, heart rate will go down, for sure.

5) By effort I do not feel that pulse is high

6) Poor pace control ( do not feel pace well after treadmill).

7) Cadence is super fast, compared to last land running, but this we can discuss, as I can not yet increase length of my strides due to some weak muscles.

8) of course with such pulse 147-151 at pace 04:25-04:30 min/km we can forget about 02:20, obviously. But I want to finish land adaptation and at least to get track and retest my LT pace, 5K pace.

Before finish land and than to train on treadmill I already have pace 04:40 --138bpm. I do not think that during 4 months of treadmill I have same low profile, as my resting heart rate dropped from 48 to 42 after treadmill

Thanks for following.

For 15 november I planned 10K TT in Valencia "Turia park" - flat course, ground.

For December - 21K TT, as Malaga Race has been canceled.

This race I will credit to Virtual race, which I registered.

Do you have a goal time for the 10K TT?

a question wrote:

highhoppingworm wrote:

As others have said, I am now convinced you are real and am certainly rooting for you.

On the other hand, Canefis ended his last message with a classic JS tell (that smiley thing), and did not reply to my question as to how he ended up with JS as a coach. Somehow there is always some weirdness whenever JS is involved; this was the case with Phil Richter as well. It does seem impossible that the GPS data could be faked.

There have been a lot of people here during the years that have understand I have a very good

and guaranteed method of improving running performances.At the moment I also coach two guys from Austria and Netherlands with main goal to break 2:40 at marathon. One of the guys

resently won a little marathon race in just over 2:40 (mostly solo in windy conditions)and the other guy is training a little bit faster and his training also points to a sub 2:40.The coaching of Kenyan elite runner Sammy Nyokaye goes on and we see out from his training results now that his first sub 2:10 marathon can be in 2021 if the covid situation gets better and normal races will start again.

Slava seem to have a little difficultie now at the first days on land with leg muscles and stride after a long period with only treadmill running, but he will soon adapt . His pulse at today`s easy run was abut 148 bpm and therefore about 77% of MHR(192), so that tells me we have to back off just a few seconds per km to get his easy runs perfect ( 70-75 % of MHR).

a question wrote:

Hi Slava, may I ask how you came to choose JS as a coach? I have checked your Strava and now that you are logging runs on land with GPS data, it is difficult to argue that you are real and who you say you are! You also post some interesting comments on other threads that seem your own ideas, not the stock JS fodder!

I would be surprised if any regular viewer to this website would go near JS with a barge pole as a coach. I am curious therefore as to how you found out about him, and why you chose him? From what you have posted here and on other threads, you seem knowledgeable yourself.

Hi!

I took coach JS as I saw his method can be interesting and has some good potentials, if you are recovering fast and have long aerobic developed base, meaning that your heart is not limiting you now, but muscles only. And does not matter of other opinion, if you want to prove, first try than make conclusions, working or not. But it does not mean that other coaches are not good. We all train different. But if you understand principles any coach will have good improvement with you, so that's why I put a lot of attention here on LRC for runners to be not robots and do not train like copy past with templates and workout collectors, trying by brute force ("poor engineers") hack your body.

My opinion, anyway need a coach:

1) once you hired him, you and him are psychologically hooked, it is similar when you train with group of runners.

2) you delegate responsibility to other person and automatically mentally it is much easier than you train along

3) coach will be like your pusher and so on.

4) one head good, but 2 is always better for analyze.

5) Training methods should not be too over complicated.

6) you can make experiment, if you do not have a coach, explain well principles of endurance training to your brother, mother, neighbor, girlfriend etc. and let them to coach you, you will see there will be more improvement than you trained a long with same principles.

Yes, goal was 31min before land touch down... :))

After 3 weeks we will decide exactly, as you can see I have problem after long treadmill (4months) usage...

highhoppingworm wrote:

It’s been interesting watching your return to land on Strava. Today we actually ran almost exactly the same distance, at exactly the same pace with exactly the same HR strangely enough. Clearly the % Max HR differs but I did find it somewhat coincidental.

Do you suspect your treadmill calibration was off given what you have seen the last couple of days? I’ll be honest, I would expect these types of runs to be much much much faster and easier given you aren’t recovering from any harder sessions and have a 2:20 marathon target.

As others have said, I am now convinced you are real and am certainly rooting for you. I do think that 2:20 is extremely over-ambitious. If I was in your shoes I would be targeting 16:mid 5k, 34:mid 10k, 1:18 HM and 2:50 full or something along those lines.

Hi. I have faced with following issues:

0) treadmill was ok, but different working muscles.

1) muscles for downhill are completely not working after treadmill

2) on flat course pace much faster than on treadmill

3) breezing/cooling is easier outdoor.

4) Once I will adapt weak muscles, heart rate will go down, for sure.

5) By effort I do not feel that pulse is high

6) Poor pace control ( do not feel pace well after treadmill).

7) Cadence is super fast, compared to last land running, but this we can discuss, as I can not yet increase length of my strides due to some weak muscles.

8) of course with such pulse 147-151 at pace 04:25-04:30 min/km we can forget about 02:20, obviously. But I want to finish land adaptation and at least to get track and retest my LT pace, 5K pace.

Before finish land and than to train on treadmill I already have pace 04:40 --138bpm. I do not think that during 4 months of treadmill I have same low profile, as my resting heart rate dropped from 48 to 42 after treadmill

Thanks for following.

For 15 november I planned 10K TT in Valencia "Turia park" - flat course, ground.

For December - 21K TT, as Malaga Race has been canceled.

This race I will credit to Virtual race, which I registered.

43rd week (next):

Mo: easy 70min @04:35-04:40

Tu: easy 50min @04:35-04:40

We: easy 60min @04:35-04:40

Thu: easy 80min @04:35-04:40

Fri: easy 50min @04:35-04:40 + 2-4x100m fast strides (80% sprint speed)/3min walk recovery

Sat: easy 90min @04:35-04:40

Sun: rest

Total: 400min (85 km)

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

I have a very good and guaranteed method

What guarantee? Phil failed so what was your guarantee?

Failed?? No way! He ran a new PR at 10 miles after almost 10 years delay.

I think Slava also noticed some of the other runners I coach/coached and the good results

before he decided to contact me . Letlhogonolo Tobias More is a young (age 21) South African middle/ longdistance runner I have coached now a couple of years . He was coached by the famous Colm O`Connel for 3 months in Kenya and returned to SA in very bad shape , then I coached him again and he became the SA senior XC Champ 2019 at 2 k. Today he ran a nice TT race at 1000m and time of 2:25 min ! I must confess I`m a little bit surprised myself of his relatively fast return to shape when he couldn`t train almost anything( just some cross training indoors) during the total lockdown in SA. I use to call him my South African uncut diamond : )). In a few years he can be a real force at 1500/ 5000m .

43rd week:

Mo: easy 70min @04:37, avg heart rate=141,

Breezing is ok,

Legs are still for downhill weak,

Generally today is little bit better.

Adaptation continue...

Corona time wrote:

Failed?? No way! He ran a new PR at 10 miles after almost 10 years delay.

So you also post as Corona time, Jan?

And failed, yes. The goal was the marathon, not a 10 mile race.

Canefis wrote:

43rd week:

Mo: easy 70min @04:37, avg heart rate=141,

Breezing is ok,

Legs are still for downhill weak,

Generally today is little bit better.

Adaptation continue...

That was good Slava! :) Now we see you are at good perfect heartrate 141/ 192 = 73 % of MHR.

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

Canefis wrote:

43rd week:

Mo: easy 70min @04:37, avg heart rate=141,

Breezing is ok,

Legs are still for downhill weak,

Generally today is little bit better.

Adaptation continue...

That was good Slava! :) Now we see you are at good perfect heartrate 141/ 192 = 73 % of MHR.

That easy pace of 4:37 and pulse 141 tells that you right now have capacity to run a 3k around 9:15, a 5 k close to 16 min, a 10 k sub 33:30 , a half sub 1:14 and a marathon sub 2:34 . That`s where you are now in capacity but we will work you down in times........

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:

That was good Slava! :) Now we see you are at good perfect heartrate 141/ 192 = 73 % of MHR.

That easy pace of 4:37 and pulse 141 tells that you right now have capacity to run a 3k around 9:15, a 5 k close to 16 min, a 10 k sub 33:30 , a half sub 1:14 and a marathon sub 2:34 . That`s where you are now in capacity but we will work you down in times........

That means no progress made so far with the magical training