In all reality the competition is there to. With meets that size and with so many heats each heat is denser aka more athletes closer to the same time so you have more people to push with. And the faster races have good pacing along with smaller fields so less bumping generally. I have raced at Harvard, Reggie and BU and my PRs are spread out and not all on the BU track.
The radius, 60m turns, 40m straights.
It’s just a hella bouncy track. My PRs for 1K 2:33 and Mile 4:24 are there. It just feels like you propel forward without bashing up your legs. It is very forgiving when you put in a surge.
Everyone is trying to go into this scientific aspect or this mental aspect or how great the meets there are run. All irrelevant. I believe it was the 2nd poster “It’s just bouncy AF.” I literally could’ve ran a 1:50 in vans there. It’s just hella springy. I remember watching a Wilson kipketer indoor WR and it looked like his legs just bounced like a cartoon deer in springtime. Same thing.
its short cuz Dave Hemery can't count to 400.
But aren't there also some rules regulating or restricting the bounciness? Like for curvature, elevation etc.
Anyway, who cares so much about indoor records/BLs. Nice to have but not really important.
This question comes up from time to time here about the BU track being short. Folks have said the same about Stanford. It makes sense people feel that way with all the fast times at these two tracks, I'd be wondering too. So many runners run quickly on this track, for reasons stated elsewhere in this thread.
For what it's worth, I worked for USATF-NE at the time and participated in the certification of the track one morning in the Fall of 2002, just before the first winter season of track races after the facility was built. Steve V oversaw the certification. I still remember the small finish nails hammered in 12" out from the curb all the way around and taping the circumference. The track length is 200m.
Here's how it's done:
https://cdn.flipsnack.com/widget/v2/flipsnackwidget.htmlhash=fhjlwcn1w&t=1572365441&fullscreen=1
I wouldn't expect this to end the discussion by any means, but figured I'd chime in since I was actually there.
-Paul Ryan (no relation to the former Speaker)
Have you run on the track? If you have youll know why its fast.
PRyan wrote:
This question comes up from time to time here about the BU track being short. Folks have said the same about Stanford. It makes sense people feel that way with all the fast times at these two tracks, I'd be wondering too. So many runners run quickly on this track, for reasons stated elsewhere in this thread.
For what it's worth, I worked for USATF-NE at the time and participated in the certification of the track one morning in the Fall of 2002, just before the first winter season of track races after the facility was built. Steve V oversaw the certification. I still remember the small finish nails hammered in 12" out from the curb all the way around and taping the circumference. The track length is 200m.
Here's how it's done:
https://cdn.flipsnack.com/widget/v2/flipsnackwidget.htmlhash=fhjlwcn1w&t=1572365441&fullscreen=1I wouldn't expect this to end the discussion by any means, but figured I'd chime in since I was actually there.
-Paul Ryan (no relation to the former Speaker)
Great Information! Do you know how far out from the inside lanes the measurement is taken from the outer lanes? So...technically you can run short in lane one at BU.
Tracks with curbs are measured 30 cm (12 inches) from the curb in lane one. All other lanes are measured 20 cm from the right edge of the white lane to the left of the runner.
Tracks designed not to have a curb are measured from the right edge of the left lane line in lane #1, 20 cm out.
fyi - If a track is designed to have a curb and the curb is not there, cones are not allowed to replace the curb - except for short sections. For example for the javelin or high jump approaches on an outdoor track. Also cones are not required on the straight sections of a track.
D.Katz wrote:
Tracks with curbs are measured 30 cm (12 inches) from the curb in lane one. All other lanes are measured 20 cm from the right edge of the white lane to the left of the runner.
Tracks designed not to have a curb are measured from the right edge of the left lane line in lane #1, 20 cm out.
fyi - If a track is designed to have a curb and the curb is not there, cones are not allowed to replace the curb - except for short sections. For example for the javelin or high jump approaches on an outdoor track. Also cones are not required on the straight sections of a track.
D.Katz, I somewhat agree on your distance out from the lane lines but believe the NCAA and NFHS have different rules regarding cone use than the IAAF. Also, there are 2.54 cm to and inch so your conversion is close but not accurate enough to use in the manner you list and have an accurate track.
I think they pump extra oxygen into the building. I'm going to snoop around a little the next time I'm there.
Seriously, I think the ventilation system is pretty good compared to other indoor track facilities I've run in, which would benefit the distance runners.
1. ok - it's 30 cm and 20 cm. I was approximating for our non metric friends.
2. I'm happy that you "somewhat" agree with me. :)
3. NCAA:
Cones and Curbing
ARTICLE 6. A track surveyed based on the existence of a curb shall, at a minimum, have the full curves bordered by a curb of suitable material approximately 5 centimeters in height and a minimum of 5 centimeters in width. The edges of the curb shall be rounded. See Figure 1.Cones may be used to replace a curb temporarily when the curb interferes with other events, but not as a substitute for a curb. If a section of the curb must be temporarily removed for any reason, its place shall be marked by a white line 5 centimeters in width and by cones at least 15 centimeters in height. The cones shall be placed on the track on top of the line so that the outward face of the cone coincides with the edge of the white line closest to the track. The cones shall be placed at distances not exceeding 4 meters outdoors and 1.5 meters indoors.For world, American and NCAA outdoor championship records, a regulation curb must be in place. For championship qualifying on a track surveyed for a curb, a regulation curb must be in place. For indoor records and all champion-ship qualifying on a track surveyed for no curb, the inside white line must be marked additionally with cones.
The one at University of Nebraska seems similar
EJS wrote:
I think they pump extra oxygen into the building. I'm going to snoop around a little the next time I'm there.
Seriously, I think the ventilation system is pretty good compared to other indoor track facilities I've run in, which would benefit the distance runners.
+1
Maybe its ozone pumped in.
Nothing like it. The armory and BU and Iowa are similar tracks. Nebraska's straights are on the ground and the track is hydraulic.
loopDloop wrote:
Not that hard to measure the distance of a track. I’m sure if it was that someone would of exposed it by now. The only advantage that track has is the clout.
I think if someone could of exposed it by now, then they would of and definitely should of.
CrikeyMate wrote:
EJS wrote:
I think they pump extra oxygen into the building. I'm going to snoop around a little the next time I'm there.
Seriously, I think the ventilation system is pretty good compared to other indoor track facilities I've run in, which would benefit the distance runners.
+1
Maybe its ozone pumped in.
Ozone is not oxygen. Ground ozone is poisonous. Ozone is 03, oxygen is 02.
they make a lot of money by having big meets. big meets = lots of competition which then starts to attract more and more top athletes. Then they've added their early December meet and last chance meet in the last few years and specifically marketed them as meets to chase fast times.
and what the other poster said about them always having rabbits for the fast heats and being very accommodating to the pros.
There's other fast tracks but for example the Armory is mostly used for youth and high school meets and a lot of the other fast ones are oversize.
If the Armory or Arkansas or Texas A&M wanted to host meets with 50 sections of time trial style racing of every event people would come.
Also you can't forget that indoor is a much bigger deal in the Northeast. So people care and take it just as seriously as outdoor, especially the athletes that aren't gonna make outdoor regionals/nationals, as their outdoor season will end by the time the weather is decent in the Northeast and a lot of teams there don't do the whole "travel to 3 west coast meets every weekend" deal.
longer than a 100 wrote:
Nothing like it. The armory and BU and Iowa are similar tracks. Nebraska's straights are on the ground and the track is hydraulic.
Don't the Armory and Iowa have steel structures, which would be less bouncy than BU? I think in one of his posts Pete Schruder said that the company that built their track no longer makes plywood tracks, so BU's advantage is probably safe for now. And I'm guessing any hydraulic track probably requires some compromises to accommodate stretching/compression of the track base. They probably just build those tracks so they can make the floor flat and use the building for other purposes.