really dude? wrote:
david45 wrote:
Because no one is answering
Everyone is answering, you just don't like the answers.
Of course I wouldn't like the answers.
really dude? wrote:
david45 wrote:
Because no one is answering
Everyone is answering, you just don't like the answers.
Of course I wouldn't like the answers.
Greg wrote:
david45 wrote:
I tried to join XC last year, but I couldn't run a mile in under 6 minutes during time trials, so the coach cut me.
It's up to the coach. I would say you should be able to do a few meets, maybe a duel meet.
Even a 6 something mile is somewhat respectable. It's all relative. 6 is better than 7. 7 better than 8.
Coach was just saying that with a time >6 minutes, you are going to be at the back of the pack in high school cross country races.
It's not an insult, it's a standard to show what should be expected to be in races and be even remotely competitive. Between being cut from cross country and indoor or outdoor, you could improve a great deal and surprise your coach and others.
Then how is anyone supposed to run XC if the average person can't run anywhere near a 6 minute mile?
david45 wrote:
really dude? wrote:
Everyone is answering, you just don't like the answers.
Of course I wouldn't like the answers.
Creating more topics with the same question isn't going to change the answers. Stop it now.
really dude? wrote:
david45 wrote:
Of course I wouldn't like the answers.
Creating more topics with the same question isn't going to change the answers. Stop it now.
It is hard to swallow the truth
Of course it impacts my fast athletes. Every additional athlete is an additional physical I have to verify and rules sheet and uniform tracking. But the practices are what really hurt the good runners because I can't give as much attention to them if I have 50 distance guys as opposed to 10. With a small number, we can easily drive to special places to do workouts and I can safely keep track of kids because they are similar in ability. I can work with them on race trategy and running form and diet and sleep and school. When doing a track workout, I can keep them on pace instead of having to monitor 3 or 4 groups who are running different paces.
coach of fasty wrote:
Of course it impacts my fast athletes. Every additional athlete is an additional physical I have to verify and rules sheet and uniform tracking. But the practices are what really hurt the good runners because I can't give as much attention to them if I have 50 distance guys as opposed to 10. With a small number, we can easily drive to special places to do workouts and I can safely keep track of kids because they are similar in ability. I can work with them on race strategy and running form and diet and sleep and school. When doing a track workout, I can keep them on pace instead of having to monitor 3 or 4 groups who are running different paces.
Then how come most schools that are strong in XC have a large team with 50+ guys?
My impression is that XC at most places is no cut.
Second, I see highly successful programs with way more than 50 kids out and they make it work. For those who think you cannot, maybe you need to reach out to those coaches who are able to handle it. Learn more about that than reading another "how to write workouts" book or article.
I wonder how many of the people saying "Yeah you deserve to be cut" are the same ones whining that track is not popular.
There are enough stories out there about a runner who has a solid if not great career who started out "slow".
Last, I think high school sports are still a time to instill a love of movement, activity, and sport in a kid. Coaches especially in a lifetime sport like XC should---yes, should!---have that as part of a mission statement. Winning and developing that love of running are not mutually exclusive.
coach of fasty wrote:
Of course it impacts my fast athletes. Every additional athlete is an additional physical I have to verify and rules sheet and uniform tracking. But the practices are what really hurt the good runners because I can't give as much attention to them if I have 50 distance guys as opposed to 10. With a small number, we can easily drive to special places to do workouts and I can safely keep track of kids because they are similar in ability. I can work with them on race trategy and running form and diet and sleep and school. When doing a track workout, I can keep them on pace instead of having to monitor 3 or 4 groups who are running different paces.
You are not a very good coach then. Poor you having to do paperwork. The football coach might have more kids than you do, he does it. So you are worse than the football coach? (Seems like everyone on here hates football and football coaches).
If you have 10 kids, then where do your runners come from? At some point if you are not developing a pipeline you are going to have poor results and the AD is going to fire you (which actually sounds like a great idea).
Sports need fewer coaches like you.
A coach can make the cuts that he wants to and if that is what the coach believes to be the best strategy to build the best team they can then I say go for it. I also think that if cross country had higher standards it would be taken a bit more seriously.
With that said, I think its a standard that would likely end up cutting runners who could end up being decent runners by the time they are seniors.
If it were my team, I'd have the following standards:
Top 7: Varsity - This should be pretty self explanatory.
Sub 6:00 Mile: JV Squad. They'll get to travel to compete in invitationals that have a JV or open race. An equivalent time would be provided for the girls team.
Rookies: rookies would be defined as anyone in their first cross country season. They'll be granted one season where they do not have to meet the mile standard without being cut. They'll be allowed to compete in dual meets or any other 'regular season' meets. If they meet the mile time at any point in the season or an equivalent 5k time they'll be bumped up to JV. Also, you get a full kit when you complete a 5k without walking. Until then you'll race in a team t-shirt.
We have a no cut policy. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a self-cut sport. If you come every day and work hard we got a spot for you. You may need to stay on campus more but you’ll get a chance to improve and get better. If you don’t show up... well that’s another matter.
Luv2Run wrote:
You are not a very good coach then. Poor you having to do paperwork. The football coach might have more kids than you do, he does it. So you are worse than the football coach? (Seems like everyone on here hates football and football coaches).
Come on, the football coach has more assistant coaches budgeted for him to do all that. It would be nice if he could coach 50 runners instead of 10 but XC coaching is practically a volunteer position at many schools so I would not expect every coach to go above and beyond.
A lot of XC teams just have a head coach. That's it. If you look at the average HS football game you might see 10-15 adults on the sideline. So the XC/football comparison just doesn't work. As a HS XC coach, I am in charge of the entire team by myself... I even have to drive the van to get us to meets. For this reason it's really important to keep numbers manageable.
Different programs have different expectations, but simply but, for even a slightly competitive school a sub 6 minute mile is not an unreasonable expectation. This is because it doesn't take a great degree of talent to run sub 6. You just need to work hard. Here's the reality IMO:
if you want to make the team, work harder. 20mpw is not enough to say that you dedicated yourself over the summer. If you want to make your team, you need maybe 30mpw minimum of base and then do some mid distance intervals leading up to the TT.
If your school had a terrible team, you wouldn't have to work so hard. You need to stop blaming the coach for setting a standard that you weren't able to hit. Did your coach make you aware at the beginning of the summer you had to run sub 6 to make the team? If so, did you do a TT on your own to see if you could run that? This is a long post but I wanted to reply in detail because it seems like you think that LRC isn't being supportive, when in fact, the majority of posters here understand why you are upset but do not agree with your assertion that the expectation was unreasonable.
toast wrote:
A lot of XC teams just have a head coach. That's it. If you look at the average HS football game you might see 10-15 adults on the sideline. So the XC/football comparison just doesn't work. As a HS XC coach, I am in charge of the entire team by myself... I even have to drive the van to get us to meets. For this reason it's really important to keep numbers manageable.
Different programs have different expectations, but simply but, for even a slightly competitive school a sub 6 minute mile is not an unreasonable expectation. This is because it doesn't take a great degree of talent to run sub 6. You just need to work hard. Here's the reality IMO:
if you want to make the team, work harder. 20mpw is not enough to say that you dedicated yourself over the summer. If you want to make your team, you need maybe 30mpw minimum of base and then do some mid distance intervals leading up to the TT.
If your school had a terrible team, you wouldn't have to work so hard. You need to stop blaming the coach for setting a standard that you weren't able to hit. Did your coach make you aware at the beginning of the summer you had to run sub 6 to make the team? If so, did you do a TT on your own to see if you could run that? This is a long post but I wanted to reply in detail because it seems like you think that LRC isn't being supportive, when in fact, the majority of posters here understand why you are upset but do not agree with your assertion that the expectation was unreasonable.
Won't new runners get injured if they try to do that?
coach of fasty wrote:
Of course it impacts my fast athletes. Every additional athlete is an additional physical I have to verify and rules sheet and uniform tracking. But the practices are what really hurt the good runners because I can't give as much attention to them if I have 50 distance guys as opposed to 10. With a small number, we can easily drive to special places to do workouts and I can safely keep track of kids because they are similar in ability. I can work with them on race trategy and running form and diet and sleep and school. When doing a track workout, I can keep them on pace instead of having to monitor 3 or 4 groups who are running different paces.
I have a large team and the slower groups do not have any negative impact on my faster runners.
My varsity squad will often do workouts on different days. Sometimes we go to those special places outside of practice. And then what happens is athletes that want to go to those “special” workout locations work harder. And, then the athletes that go to those special workouts step it up because they don’t want to lose their spot.
...and then you have a fast team.
After a few years with a big team I can keep track of multiple groups when I have to in a workout. It comes with practice. I had done it on one watch by staggering each girl by ten seconds and then having group leaders keep track of the rest interval while I keep track of the top group. It can be done.
Early season the kids that did not run over the summer which constitutes much of the slow athletes we have do not even do workouts. I have found for this group there is a 50% injury rate of they go from nothing to running 6 days per week with races and workouts. So what do you do? Races, recovery runs, and regular runs with a lot of rest. We have won a lot of JV championships with that strategy. But, they are not getting in the way of your top group and some of them will train hard next year and be on your varsity.
So be careful of who you reject. They might be your future.
As an athlete in high school I went from being a 21+ minute sophomore to be being undefeated regionally my senior year. I probably would have been cut from other teams.
I keep 50 distance runners. I was answering the kid by explaining how additional numbers do impact other kids. I am not complaining. It is my choice to maintain a distance roster of 50. We typically have 75 try out and we keep 50. We are the dominant team in the state utilizing this process.
david45!
Switch over to my school and you can go from chump to CHAMP!
david45 wrote:
Greg wrote:
It's up to the coach. I would say you should be able to do a few meets, maybe a duel meet.
Even a 6 something mile is somewhat respectable. It's all relative. 6 is better than 7. 7 better than 8.
Coach was just saying that with a time >6 minutes, you are going to be at the back of the pack in high school cross country races.
It's not an insult, it's a standard to show what should be expected to be in races and be even remotely competitive. Between being cut from cross country and indoor or outdoor, you could improve a great deal and surprise your coach and others.
Then how is anyone supposed to run XC if the average person can't run anywhere near a 6 minute mile?
The average is much faster in XC.
coach of fasty wrote:
I keep 50 distance runners. I was answering the kid by explaining how additional numbers do impact other kids. I am not complaining. It is my choice to maintain a distance roster of 50. We typically have 75 try out and we keep 50. We are the dominant team in the state utilizing this process.
And do you feel about cutting kids?
speed trap wrote:
david45 wrote:
Then how is anyone supposed to run XC if the average person can't run anywhere near a 6 minute mile?
The average is much faster in XC.
And XC shouldn't be exclusive to the talented
david45 wrote:
Won't new runners get injured if they try to do that?
Were you truly a brand new runner at the tryout? Does your school have a middle school XC/TF team? I don't think it's too much to ask an athlete to be able to handle that kind of mileage if it's a good team. So no, most runners will not get hurt on 30mpw easy base.
Another coach said it above - most coaches won't even let a runner do workouts if they find out they don't have enough summer base. If you are absolutely brand new to the sport is it unreasonable for the coach to tell you to work on your own and come back again next year when you enough experience to compete safely?