run faster and faster wrote:
A 10:12 2 miler can run 60 min 12 miler?
“Threshold” as defined by the pace one can hold for a 60 minute run.
He’s not saying that she could run 5:00 pace for 12 miles, dumb dumb.
run faster and faster wrote:
A 10:12 2 miler can run 60 min 12 miler?
“Threshold” as defined by the pace one can hold for a 60 minute run.
He’s not saying that she could run 5:00 pace for 12 miles, dumb dumb.
tin can man wrote:
She has more potential than Tuohy but Ewert might be overtrained just like Tuohy. She spends a lot of time running and racewalking, her training volume is already very high.
The Arkansas coach is MUCH better than the UNC coach so hopefully he'll develop Ewert well.
She probably is a favorite to make the Olympic team in the racewalk.
Good thing Tuohy is going to NC State and not UNC then
But what pace is her threshold? He is insinuating that this 72 minute run was slower than that.
Damn, my male top 20 in the nation D1 school didn't do long runs anywhere close to this pace.
Wow that is fast.
The coach prescribes mile repeats at 3k/Vo2 pace and a 2 mile all our time trial basically every week from August - November.
So she’s used to getting killed week in and week out. This should have been a breeze for her.
Still, totally unnecessary unless she’s planning on running a half marathon sometime soon.
shootpost wrote:
Damn, my male top 20 in the nation D1 school didn't do long runs anywhere close to this pace.
Wow that is fast.
But he could have. 5k pace per mile + 40 seconds or so is pretty doable.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
tin can man wrote:
What would Tinman say about this kind of long run?
It's 12 miles at ~MP/Tinman Tempo, Tinman would never assign this kind of long run for a HS kid. Hunter (~2-3 min faster in a 5k than Ewert at that time) never did hard long runs, he kept his long runs relaxed and typical tempos were 4-6 mile long (around 5:35 pace in the summer prior to his senior year).
This 12 mile long run, all at MP does not seem specific for the 1500-5k events Ewert is focusing on. It might help her significantly with race walking, I don't know much about the sport but it's probably more like a 10k or half marathon than a mile or 3k.
It's probably fine as long as she doesn't hammer a long run like this every week. Tinman would have her run 9-10 miles easy, and then maybe, if she feels good pick it up during the last 2-3 miles.
Grant Fisher, got down to 6:30 pace on long runs, which is faster than Hunter, but slower than Ewert. But again - he was 2-3 min faster in a 5k. When you look at Milesplit training logs, you often see HS girls completely killing it on easy days and long runs, and then sometimes getting injured either in the summer or shortly afterwards. Lots of these training blogs are filled with cross-training, since they are constantly beat up in the legs and/or injured. Just because someone is extremely talented, like Ewert, Claudia Lane, Kate Murphy, etc., does not mean they can just go nuts on each easy/long run without having to pay for it one time.
This pace for a marathon would be 2:35. Are you saying she can run a 2:35?
Everybody stop calling this a “long run.”
When someone says “marathon pace” they don’t mean it’s the pace a person could race a marathon at that time, especially when the runner has done no marathon specific training.
Some coaches would call this “tempo” pace, which is slower than “threshold” pace.
All that being said, of course she could run within striking distance of 2:35 in the marathon if she trained for it.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Everybody stop calling this a “long run.”
When someone says “marathon pace” they don’t mean it’s the pace a person could race a marathon at that time, especially when the runner has done no marathon specific training.
Some coaches would call this “tempo” pace, which is slower than “threshold” pace.
All that being said, of course she could run within striking distance of 2:35 in the marathon if she trained for it.
If this isn't a long run, what is it? Are her long runs 13 or above?
So marathon pace isn't supposed to correlate with what you can actually run a marathon in?
tin can man wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
Everybody stop calling this a “long run.”
When someone says “marathon pace” they don’t mean it’s the pace a person could race a marathon at that time, especially when the runner has done no marathon specific training.
Some coaches would call this “tempo” pace, which is slower than “threshold” pace.
All that being said, of course she could run within striking distance of 2:35 in the marathon if she trained for it.
If this isn't a long run, what is it? Are her long runs 13 or above?
So marathon pace isn't supposed to correlate with what you can actually run a marathon in?
A long run is almost universally considered something 90 minutes or longer. If you only run 20 miles per week and your longest run is 5 miles, it does make it a “long run.”
Most people are not training for marathons. “Marathon pace” is a relative training pace, not a race predictor time.
If you were training for a marathon and decided to do 400s at “mile pace,” that, similarly, would not mean that you could race a mile at that pace.
With no races in the forseeable future, and no school and cabin fever, she probably steamrolled a 12-miler. Nothing wrong with that if it's a one-off. She is in about 10:00 shape or better, but so are a number of other girls.
YMMV wrote:
With no races in the forseeable future, and no school and cabin fever, she probably steamrolled a 12-miler. Nothing wrong with that if it's a one-off. She is in about 10:00 shape or better, but so are a number of other girls.
12 mile at MP/tempo pace are hard, but not a killer session, especially for an aerobic-dominant runner such as Ewert. It was a moderate/hard long run, but not an effort that leaves her on the ground or where she has to strain in the end.
This fits in base phase, where she might be building mileage and only do 1 workout a week, no races. Her shape is better than her PR's suggest. She was the runner-up in NXN XC 2019, and threatened the win of Tuohy. You don't beat the likes of Starliper, Thorvaldson etc. and finish a second behind Tuohy if you aren't at least in 16 low shape (5k on track).
She is in similar shape as me, and doing a 12 mile run at 6 min pace would be quite hard but I also think it's a bad investment of our time. The run was probably done on a flat, hard surface. I'd rather have her run in the woods, on the trails, with varying terrain and run some Fartleks or threshold k's/miles or shorter tempos at 6 min pace, with a warm-up and cool-down. The long run is a great tool to relax and get the mind off a hard training week, unless someone is training for the half or full marathon where it becomes a specific workout.
Still, she hasn't been injured yet from what I know so they are doing a lot of things right. Sad that she got ripped off her senior track season in HS but it will allow her to do a lot of aerobic training to gain strength and have a killer XC season as Freshman in college.
Lenny Leonard wrote:
shootpost wrote:
Damn, my male top 20 in the nation D1 school didn't do long runs anywhere close to this pace.
Wow that is fast.
But he could have. 5k pace per mile + 40 seconds or so is pretty doable.
So I was a 14:30 runner, so 4:40 mile pace. That would be 12 miles at 5:20 pace.
I maybe, maybe, could have done that. If I did it would have destroyed me- all out race effort. So no, not "pretty doable"
shootpost wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
But he could have. 5k pace per mile + 40 seconds or so is pretty doable.
So I was a 14:30 runner, so 4:40 mile pace. That would be 12 miles at 5:20 pace.
I maybe, maybe, could have done that. If I did it would have destroyed me- all out race effort. So no, not "pretty doable"
No real 14:30 runner would even struggle at 12 miles at 5:20, and definitely not be destroyed by that, haha. 5:20 is MP for a 14:30 runner, which should feel like a controlled effort with controlled breathing (tempo).
But I forgot this is LRC, where everyone is a self-proclaimed 14:30 runner or OTQ marathoner.
shootpost wrote:
Lenny Leonard wrote:
But he could have. 5k pace per mile + 40 seconds or so is pretty doable.
So I was a 14:30 runner, so 4:40 mile pace. That would be 12 miles at 5:20 pace.
I maybe, maybe, could have done that. If I did it would have destroyed me- all out race effort. So no, not "pretty doable"
That like 1:10 half marathon pace. There are 15:10 guys who can run that.
When I first ran sub 10 in the 3200, there is no way I could have done any more than 8 miles sub 6. She seems like an aerobic beast.
Will Taylor Ewert be the new Taylor Werner for Arkansas?
My son ran 15:30 in XC this year. He runs 45 MPW and does a long run of 10 miles at 7:20 pace. He possibly could complete a 12 mile race at 6 minute pace.
Another thread destroyed by LateRunnerPhil
Jgt11 wrote:
When I first ran sub 10 in the 3200, there is no way I could have done any more than 8 miles sub 6. She seems like an aerobic beast.
Afaik, she never ran a 800m. If HS kids don't run 800m that says more than enough about their distribution of ST to FT fibers. You would probably have smoked her in the 800 and 1500/Mile, but she might be stronger in anything above 3k when you ran sub 10 the first time. Keep in mind she does a lot of training for racewalking, which would be equivalent to cycling many hours a day in addition to the regular run training and has shown to have a very strong effect on the cardiovascular system. Even Meb went on long bike rides when training for marathons, he wouldn't have done that if cross-training wouldn't have brought positive adaptions to running long distances at a brisk pace.
However, I have no doubt some other HS girls like Tuohy can do similar long runs without straining too much or being at/above their threshold.