Webb's place 9th vs Snell's

see i diasagree - he basically ran anotehr 2:13, so it's not like he made some big jump in fitness and had the benefit of trying to catch guys who were actually going for a medal for their country. good for him for running to a fast run and a high place, but webb was actually in the race and sell wasn't. if you want to compare who executed their strategy that's a completely different question. the person i give respect to is the one who lays it on the line best to put himself in a position to get a medal. Webb did that by virtue of his front running in the heats and trying to pull away from people with 700 to go.

NEWS FLASH!

Webb is really not that good.

Get over it!

If he'd left it till 400 to go he may have had a chance.

As it was he acted as a pacemaker for them. I hope they paid him well!

Also......he is bald at 22,any drug connection?

Had Webb run within 5 seconds of his (1500m) PR on Wednesday, as did Sell today, then Webb would have won the 1,500m Final in Helsinki.

That being said, Sell ran a smarter race, but both can be proud of their efforts this week. Both of them have yet to reach their peak.

Good Luck to both.

You got it right buddy. I wholeheartedly agree.

Peter Snell's 3 golds definitely a bit better than Webb's 9th place!!!

Does that answer the question?

Right. He's only a 3:48 miler. By letsrun standards, I suppose that makes him average. Next your going to tell us that back in the good ol' days 3:48 milers were a dime a dozen.

steepler wrote:

NEWS FLASH!

Webb is really not that good.

Get over it!

do you guys think Webb expected to get run down like he did? he made the move he had to make in order to give himself a shot at a medal, the only thing is that his legs were probably a lot more trashed than he imagined they would. three rounds of 1500's take a toll that maybe he didnt realize until 150m after that move he made.

if it had been a good day (i.e. a day like his 3:48 mile) that move may not have been so costly.

>>>>>Webb ran against much tougher competition. Webb had never made an international final. Webb led the thing in the latter stages. The WC for the 1500m is a pretty big event, it's the race everyone wants to win each year over all else.

..............................................................................

Road races are always the hardest to win because of the mass fields. so much more depth of competition. There was 100 starters in the marathon and Sell ran 9th. The 1500m wasn't as strong this year, no El G or Lagat. Think El G's pacemaker from other WC finals took 2nd.

Just because more people are in the race, does not mean the race has a deeper field. The # of elite marathoners who did not run the WC far outweighs the loss of El G or Lagat (the former of which would probably have helped Webb's chances at a medal). Marathoning is full of talent, don't get me wrong, but the top talent is often accomplished 10k track runners who are losing their speed. And please, let's get serious here, marathons are the road races you can even COMPARE to world championship track races. The randomness found in marathon champions is not on account of deep fields, but rather the inherent difficulty of the marathon itself.

>>>>>>Just because more people are in the race, does not mean the race has a deeper field. The # of elite marathoners who did not run the WC far outweighs the loss of El G or Lagat (the former of which would probably have helped Webb's chances at a medal). Marathoning is full of talent, don't get me wrong, but the top talent is often accomplished 10k track runners who are losing their speed. And please, let's get serious here, marathons are the road races you can even COMPARE to world championship track races. The randomness found in marathon champions is not on account of deep fields, but rather the inherent difficulty of the marathon itself

...............................................................................................

Let you get serious here. The days of marathoners being old 10km runners losing their speed as are well gone and have been sinece the running boom of the 80's. They are genuine runenrs in their own right. The marathon has many "elite" type athletes (think of the buckets of athletes worldwide under 2.09), even when some are missing, not few as you find in shorter events. And you have to race 100 of them at once, not 12, over the difficulty of 26 miles as well. Fields of this nature are always extremely tough. And yes, as you say, they are road races but given the thread is comparing Webb and Sell, well they didn't run the marathon on the track. For me, 9th in a field of 100 marathoners in most circumstances is way better than 9th in a 1500m final, unless in the unlikely event you've come 9th in around 3.30 or better for example.

Reminds me of what Billy Mills said of US distance runners while watching the '92 games ... "American male runners just dont seem willing to take chances anymore although the women do. When I won the Olympics i went through 5k just 3" off my best time for that distance".

I'm infinitely jealous of both Sell & Webb but Webb deserves more credit for believing he could do it. Will Sell ever believe he can do it?

[BTW, the mens marathon was certainly as stacked as the mens 1500m with WC & OC running]

It is ALWAYS ridiculous to compare racing strategies from a 1500 to a marathon. THE 2 EVENTS HAVE NOTHING IN COMMON. You may as well compare racing strategies from the 100 to the 1500 as they have as much in common as the 1500 and the marathon.

I think that Webb did a great job of learning what things he needs to work on to become a better miler. Keep in mind that the tactics employed by someone who has 46 second 400 speed as compared to 49 second speed should be different. In other words to say that you need to run a certain way in championship races is 100% wrong. WEBB SHOULD LEARN TO RUN TO HIS OWN STRENGTHS. I think that he is learning to do that. In order for Webb to be a factor the field needs to go through in 1:57 or faster. If the field is slower than that in world competition then Webb should just step off of the track because his race is over. I think that Webb is beginning to realize this and therefore has to assure that 1:57 or faster happens even if he is responsible for making it that fast. He will get stronger and eventually be able to be a front runner. But in order to medal he MUST be a front runner.

the standards for actually just making it to the heats of the 1500 are a lot more stringent than gettng into the marathon. let's be serious, how many guys are on the line has nothing to do with it, especially when all you have to do is run around the same pace as the women's WR. People here claim that Sell beat all these 2:08 guys but dids anyone stop to check when was the last time some of those guys ran that fast? Also Webb beat his fair share of elites too - look at the guys who didn't make it to the final - Heshko, most of the Kenyans, etc. this is no mean feat. And hey youdid beat Estevez, former bronze medalist. and you HAVE to factor in the fact that a lot of the guys ran for a medal and not for top ten. if they were running for top ten, Sell would never have finished in the top 20.

I can't see why people can compare the two. People always put Webb at this impossible standard like he has to medal or he is a failure. But Sell, though he has run 2:12ish type times is always placed in this safety net, that no matter where he finishes it's a success.

and if Webb had to compete against 5 athletes from each country instead of 3 then he wouldn't have even made the finals.

Also add to the fact that a third of the field DNF'd so they could run a fall marathon. Don't make the WC marathon to be as big as a deal as it really is. Sell beating these DNF guys is a hollow victory really. This marathon isn't so high a priority on a marathoner's list.

And if each country could send 5 - I bet Webb would actually finish higher. With that many people in the heats his front runnign tactic would work even better for him and other people would be more tired from the jostling that comes with big heats.

Actually I feel that Verran's 22 place is a better comparison to Webb than Sells 9th.

HOW ABOUT FORGETTING WHO RAN A BETTER RACE AND TRY THIS ONE ON.

Which american distance runners surpassed your expectations at the WC?

For me there were only 5.

Victoria Jackson

Brian Sell

Clint Verran

Turena Lane

Emily Levan

Victoria Jackson was the only one on the oval.

you sir know very little about the WC marathon fields if you have those people listed as surprises.

Why is it surprising that a guy who has run 2:13 and was reportedly in 2:10 shape ran....drum roll....2:13!!!!!! yeah really blew some expectations there.

hellboyz wrote:

his statgy was fine. ElG has employed the SAME strategy twice in his championship wins and Morceli has done it once as well.

At the risk of stating the obvious... A sound strategy for the strongest athlete in the field, like El G or Morceli, or Webb in a US race, is likely a foolish strategy for somebody like Webb at the WC finals. He has yet to win a big international 1500, and had maybe the 7th best PR in the final. To mimic El G was not courageous, but foolish.

Moreover, I don't think for a minute that the strategy he employed was his best chance to win. The odds of him powering away from that field 700m out was basically nil. He would have had a better (still very very small, but better) chance of winning by going with the pack and hoping that somebody gets boxed, somebody else goes too soon, etc.