YMMV wrote:
Hong Kong consumes twice as much eat per capita as Italy
Good grief. At least you're consistent.
However, if Italy still consumed half as much, why didn't that half as much protect them?
Plus, I'm pretty sure they eat meat in China, and in Washington state.
dunes runner wrote:
Dwightarm wrote:
The whole argument of 'it's only killed 4,000 people vs the flu which such-and-such amount' is REALLY missing the point: This is a NEW virus.
Actually that's wrong. It's been around since at least 2003. Researchers in Iowa injected the virus into mice prior to 2008, which is when they found out that injecting the virus into people could kill them. The SARS outbreak was recently discovered to actually have been the corona virus. It is not a new virus.
I'm not concerned with the virus, but I'm concerned about the many over reactions and responses.
All of that is wrong.
Both SARS and COVID19 are from coronavirus.
But coronavirus is a family of virus. Cold is also from a coronavirus.
SRAS was by SARS-Cov virus and Covid19 by the new virus named SARS-Cov-2 which is a new virus.
dunes runner wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Hong Kong consumes twice as much eat per capita as Italy
Good grief. At least you're consistent.
However, if Italy still consumed half as much, why didn't that half as much protect them?
Plus, I'm pretty sure they eat meat in China, and in Washington state.
Dose dependent. More is in fact better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxW-JKLeu1k&lc=z22eefkwbwnbvfhdiacdp4353gjnvw0dyfoqs3d2woxw03c010c.1583386560849135YMMV wrote:
Dose dependent. More is in fact better.
So when people who eat meat get sick, you'll just say they didn't eat enough meat.
In fact, I haven't eaten any meat since 1974, and I don't recall ever getting sick since then either.
In contrast, almost everyone I know who eats meat seems to get sick all the time and is always going to doctors.
Asian countries learned from SARS, cleansing is a priority. Lift buttons have a plastic film that is changed every few hours, escalator hand rails are cleaned, public spaces cleaned every few hours, no surface is left to lead to large numbers of infection. The West is just dirty!
Dwightarm wrote:
As far as I understand it, S. Korea did an amazing job with extremely high #s of testing and quarantining/social distancing.
Italy did not.
The US is more similar to Italy; our testing is abysmal. We are about 12 days behind them so we can see them for our future if we don't change things.
I'm in NYC and there are huge changes happening now, with self-quarantining and being encouraged to work from home.
The whole argument of 'it's only killed 4,000 people vs the flu which such-and-such amount' is REALLY missing the point: This is a NEW virus. It hasn't reached everywhere yet. And it is multiplying x10 every 15-20 days. If we let it continue unabated, it will be a disaster for healthcare systems. At this point, the beginning of May will have hundreds of millions of cases.
Personally, I'd rather extreme quarantining measures be taken preemptively and we say 'that was over reacting' than we suffer massive losses and look back and say 'we under reacted.'
Muppet. Do some reading.
It was in Italy in January. They had no idea. Testing was carried out, but it was too late.
dunes runner wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Dose dependent. More is in fact better.
So when people who eat meat get sick, you'll just say they didn't eat enough meat.
In fact, I haven't eaten any meat since 1974, and I don't recall ever getting sick since then either.
In contrast, almost everyone I know who eats meat seems to get sick all the time and is always going to doctors.
A perfect specimen of solipsistic thinking.
italia wrote:
Asian countries learned from SARS, cleansing is a priority. Lift buttons have a plastic film that is changed every few hours, escalator hand rails are cleaned, public spaces cleaned every few hours, no surface is left to lead to large numbers of infection. The West is just dirty!
Those oh-so-sanitary countries in Africa, South America and central Asia are untouched!
https://scitechdaily.com/images/COVID-19-Coronavirus-Map-March-5.jpgThats because they dont have testing!
we live in northwest washington. our county now has a confirmed case and 19 somewhat likely cases awaiting testing (for over a week). county has to send test swabs of 19 highly likely infected to university washington. cdc is not really relevant. uw lab is overloaded. to the best of my knowledge our flu research lab developed tests from WHO genome. seattle and surrounding area are in crisis so priorities have to be invoked. county is doing great job but they have no way of knowing how many have it and where pockets are located. only protection if you go out is to wear a n95 mask but you cannot buy them. Result of this is that county is in shutdown mode. We go nowhere if we can help it. Don't be stupid. Stock up now. I am almost 75 and have been a runner forever (35 marathons, best time 2:32, not great but i am proud of that and still run a little almost every day). Mortality rate for a heart compromised person over 60 is about 21 times than of someone not compromised (i am fortunate but others are not). don't kid yourself, this is serious. Death rate at least 10 times that of a flu but WHO estimates 30 times a typical flu for numbers they have now. Right number is probably in between or you live in italy. i was not a medical professional but did do math and computer science way back in Bell Lab days. Mathematics in now dictating spread unless there is an immediate intervention like massive testing right now. For those of you making fun of this, you are wrong. The change here in a week is unreal. If you live in other parts of the country, just wait. Good luck and take this seriously. There are healthy people who don't make it including MD's in their 30s. Who knows.
FinnJ wrote:
Thats because they dont have testing!
They are so clean and tidy they don't need it!
Actually... There is no reason to discuss this. US will hopefully learn afterwards. I know I am right and you will soon see it to
I live and work in South Korea. I'm from the US. SK at first was not very proactive at first, or so it seemed, with not restricting Chinese tourists etc. except for maybe the Wuhan area, politics and all. What SK has done, very well, it has set up thousands of testing centers, even drive through testing centers. So it is testing thousands everyday. When the MERS virus hit years back, SK became proactive then. But the main problem here has been the policy on supplies of masks and the buying of masks. Also most of those affected are in Daegu which is about 180 south of Seoul. SK is only the size of maybe Indiana, so 50 million people like in Indiana. Seoul is just beginning to see some clusters, but 90% of those affected are in Daegu. And many of those are related to a so-called religious cult, where some of them had gone to Wuhan and came back and it hit the Daegu area. Schools have closed and or online classes. Sporting event, Seoul marathon, pro sports are cancelled or postponed etc. The situation in SK is beginning to level off it seems. But Seoul is on edge because of 90 in call center were just affected. Seoul and metro area is not just down, but is not what is was before.
masks
older runner wrote:
I am almost 75 and have been a runner forever (35 marathons, best time 2:32, not great but i am proud of that and still run a little almost every day).
I recall someone in the STC in the early 1980s who ran a 2:32 and sometimes did workouts on the track.
dunes runner wrote:
Actually that's wrong. It's been around since at least 2003. Researchers in Iowa injected the virus into mice prior to 2008, which is when they found out that injecting the virus into people could kill them. The SARS outbreak was recently discovered to actually have been the corona virus. It is not a new virus.
I'm not concerned with the virus, but I'm concerned about the many over reactions and responses.
Abeneziel wrote:
All of that is wrong.
Both SARS and COVID19 are from coronavirus.
But coronavirus is a family of virus. Cold is also from a coronavirus.
SRAS was by SARS-Cov virus and Covid19 by the new virus named SARS-Cov-2 which is a new virus.
Abeneziel is right.
This virus has NOT been around in humans since 2003. Earliest estimates place it at December 2019 in humans.
Dunesrunner is referring to a previous strain of coronavirus known as SARS-Cov. We are experiencing SARS-Cov-2 aka COVID19
wiggins is awful wrote:
Muppet. Do some reading.
It was in Italy in January. They had no idea. Testing was carried out, but it was too late.
Seems that's what he/she was saying: Too little, too late.
Almost everyone here in SK wears a mask, the same in Japan where I have friends. Social distancing is very much real here.
wejo, this article explains what you want to know in very good detail, with very interesting charts.
Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, Thailand, and Hong Kong learned from SARS and were prepared. Places in China outside of Hubei were locked down by China, so their cases did not go exponential like Italy, Iran, and South Korea.
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca
It's also worth your time to watch Joe Rogan #1439 with infectious disease expert Michael Osterholm. He talks about where the whole situation, but also specific areas where we aren't prepared:
I am from Hong Kong, basically there are some reasons why coronavirus is not spreading very fast in Hong Kong.
Firstly, they have learned the experience of being hit by SARS back in 2003, when the death toll is up a few hundred case at that time. This time, when the coronavirus hit again, everyone rushed to the street and laid overnight to buy mask and antiseptic washing fluid. The local health centers have advices to avoid contact between local residents and hence they stay home during Lunar New Year . Gatgerings, mass events, workplace and government buildings have all been cancelled or shuttered. All Hong Kongers awareness have been raised immediately to prevent the debacle recurring again. Until now, everyone on streets wears mask and obey to the non-contact principles.
Secondly, there are geographical differences between China and Hong Kong. Despite high influx of visitors into the territory, the two have relatively little intergroup contact than intraland.The political conflicts in the past few months have strengthened the identity as a Hong Konger, many of the residents have not been travelled to mainland China in quite a lot months. ShenZhen also acts as a barrier to stand off the transmission. Further, the border gates are limited to only emergency services and few authoritative persons from China. Most HongKongers have no trust in their government, they are determined to saving themselves from the epidemic.
