Mary Cain is back? Runs huge SB of 9:07 3k at Boston University

Yes there have been several I can think of, but I don't want to name names online as I don't think it would be fair of me to single people out who essentially 'had body changes' relating to puberty etc. However there is one in particular who went through an awful time of it and she came back to represent her country and win various titles internationally (this is going back a few years though). So to the person asking about this scenario, yes, people can come back and get better than before. Everyone is different.

I think the whole "body changes" theory is horse manure despite how often it gets pushed here. Young female distance runners face different challenges and there is often a readjustment period but this idea that they magically and irreversible just lose their speed is overstated. I think the key is avoiding major injury and avoiding dangerous eating habit. Every athlete is different and not every great high school runner excels later on but others do. The way it gets talked about on this site has been that the split second they don't PR, they are through, which is ridiculous.

Greg wrote:

FatScottishJogger wrote:

If she makes it back to her best or not is irrelevant.

I agree, but, this is Letsrun. The boards demand top performances, they are quick to draw blood.

In a way, the trolls and negativity here serves a purpose to demand only the best.

That's the great thing about athletics. It's you and your performance and that's what matters.

Of course it’s relevant. Sorry, but I’m not a fan of participation medals. I think it’s great that she gets to do what she enjoys, and still does it relatively well. But top flight performances count for something and 9:06 is hardly top flight.

Think About It wrote:

Avocado's Number wrote:

First two to come to my mind:

Mary Decker

Lynn Jennings

Wasn’t Decker injury related and didn’t Jennings retire and come back to the marathon in her late 30s?

I am referring to not performing because of body changes that seem to occur with adolescent girl/women.

Decker has talked pretty extensively about the changes in her body -- big gains in height and weight, widening of hips, and so on -- between the ages of about fifteen to seventeen, during which time she went from being the best female middle-distance runner in the U.S., and one of the best in the world, to being written off as a has-been. Decker is, in fact, a dramatic example of a female distance runner who was world-class both before and after a major adolescent growth spurt.

Jennings, like Cain, was a national high-school record-holder who fizzled during her college years. Jennings returned to a high level of competition quite some time after graduating from Princeton, with strong international-caliber results in her mid- to late-twenties and a streak of several world championships and an Olympic medal that began when she was almost thirty years old.

In mid December she got beat in the 6K XC race by both Tuohy and Cuffe by 1 minute, running 21+ minutes. In January she was at 9:25 or so for 3,000. Now she is at 9:07 basically even with bot Cuffe and Tuohy (tho Tuohy has not done it this season). Is the trend not good even without knowing where her ceiling will be?

Greg wrote:

FatScottishJogger wrote:

If she makes it back to her best or not is irrelevant.

I agree, but, this is Letsrun. The boards demand top performances, they are quick to draw blood.

In a way, the trolls and negativity here serves a purpose to demand only the best.

That's the great thing about athletics. It's you and your performance and that's what matters.

Please. It's a spectator sport. It's not a discussion of how your co-workers or children did in yesterday's fun run. I'm the first person to think that humans care WAY too much about professional sports, and can be way too nasty about it. But to say that the question of whether or not a former phenom will get back to elite running is "irrelevant" is absolutely ridiculous.

Too many overly nicey-nice running fans want it both ways. Folks should care about running and so it should be covered by the media, BUT, we can't treat it anywhere near a normal sport and ever discuss performances in anything other than a, "You did GREAT!" way. No.

Greg wrote:

FatScottishJogger wrote:

If she makes it back to her best or not is irrelevant.

I agree, but, this is Letsrun. The boards armchairexperts demand top performances, they are quick to draw blood.

In a way, the trolls and negativity here serves a purpose to demand only the best.

That's the great thing about athletics. It's you and your performance and that's what matters.

Hi Greg, I fixed a bit your post to commensurate with the reality of these forums.

I think we just need a little perspective on Cain. Right now she is 23, Simpson is 33, so let's say Cain still has a 10 year window for peak performance.

Her only goal at the moment is to bet back to healthy, happy, motivated, consistent training with some racing thrown in for fun and as a measuring stick for progress. Even if it takes another year or two, as long as she stays healthy and keeps improving, that would still be a success story.

The last thing she needs to do right now is worry about her weight. If she runs 50-60 miles per week, cross trains and just eats healthy, the weight will take care of itself.

I'm curious in the spring to see how she does in an 800 and 1500, as that's where her real strength was. Overall, she is way ahead of what I thought would be her comeback potential, so thats a great start.

I think that she’s starting her upswing and that she’s just getting started. She had a lot of stuff to work through and to find joy in life and in running again.

I'm blown away that she could do so well in in the 3000 this year. I didn't think she had a good base yet, after a long period of injury cycle.

Karl, I absolutely agree, it is about finding joy in running, and getting healthy. The talent does not go away.

This does not surprise me at all. All she ever needed to do was race, race, and race some more. Somehow, every high school coach on the universe knows that their athletes need to race frequently to reach top form. But Mary Cain was in such a bad place mentally that she could not deal with dropping some stinkers for a few months.

This is just the beginning. Mary Cain is a savage. She knows that every step forward rubs Al Sal’s nose in his own feces a little harder.

Avocado's Number wrote:

Think About It wrote:

Do you think a fast adolescent girl, who then goes through a “slump” can come back? Has it been done before? In this scenario a lot of people (me included) have assumed that it’s over - will Mary Cain prove that wrong? Once a female runner works out her new body, if she had phenomenal talent, can it return?

First two to come to my mind:

Mary Decker

Lynn Jennings

Uh ever heard of Jordan Hasay?

I think she is in a much better place. Looks happy training with the NJNY crew

Avocado's Number wrote:

Decker is, in fact, a dramatic example of a female distance runner who was world-class both before and after a major adolescent growth spurt.

She is also one of the few hard core doped to the gills drug cheats that got caught in the 90s, despite the rudimentary testing back then. Think Carl Lewis, FloJo, ...

FastTuohy wrote:

In mid December she got beat in the 6K XC race by both Tuohy and Cuffe by 1 minute, running 21+ minutes. In January she was at 9:25 or so for 3,000. Now she is at 9:07 basically even with bot Cuffe and Tuohy (tho Tuohy has not done it this season). Is the trend not good even without knowing where her ceiling will be?

Excellent trend. I will note that X-C was never her thing though. It's great to see an underdog come through, and she'll have a lot of support from most of us in the running scene. Even if some of us think she's over-acted her part re Salazar (though he's culpable too in many ways), and acted very immaturely regards to the expectations in the pro running scene. She didn't seem ready; maybe she's grown up a bit now, and added a bit of 'tough' to her persona. Either way, she's smart and talented physically and mentally - she'll make it in life professionally as a medic, so perhaps running is just a side thing for her. Good on her either way for getting back in to it and making a go of it.

It's interesting that a number of comments relate to weight being an issue and it will take care of itself. At the elite level it is an issue and it does not take care of itself as any women's coach can tell you. It's a discussion with guidance.

Funny to hear how its talked about now with concern and when Salazar talk with athletes about it with his athletes it was abuse.

Now that is the first real sign of progress for her, her best time in 5 years. I'm happy for her. I hope she makes it all the way back. 800/1500 is really her wheelhouse, so I hope they go for that this summer.

9:07 is not a dopable time.