How much faster could one person get by correcting their form?

Kipboing Boing wrote:

If bouncing is bad why does everyone wear the boing boing pogo shoes now?

Because they are bouncing forwards more, not upwards.

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

I was the one who was asking. I wanted to know because someone I knew said that I bounced too much when I ran, and I was wondering how much effort I should put in to tweak my form... also I was wondering if it would help much to breaking 5 in the mile. Thank you guys for the responses

Bouncing isn't necessarily bad. I trained with Jim Spivey, 3-time Olympian. He joined us once in our 400m reps. I ran behind him and noticed that he was bouncing at a 88-second pace. I wondered why and then realized that at barely sub-6 minute mile pace, he was just jogging!

If you're bouncing in easy runs, that's okay, but if you're bouncing more than everyone else at race pace, you're wasting effort.

Or, you could be overstriding. Get to a treadmill, set up your phone, and video yourself running. Video some of your friends who have "good" form and look at the difference. Lots of young runners overstride and it doesn't seem to negatively impact their times.

"Bad" form mostly leads to injuries. Lots of elite runners have less than perfect form, according to the experts, but they do fine.

SPR wrote:

Now how it works2 wrote:

What's completely deranged is to think you can draw inferences out of thin air as to what constitutes proper running form and improve it by providing arbitrary cues that are not in any way anchored to known scientific facts.

Identifying perfect form is impossible. That' s not to say that you cannot pick out some bits which are not beneficial e.g. foot strike a long way in front of COM - well that's clearly applying a breaking force so not good. Physics plays a major part in biomechanics. The challenge we have is in the fact we are living organisms - through repeated practice people can get very economical at a fundamentally inefficient movement, so is the end output going to be worth making the change.

Yes indeed. I don't think anyone has supported the notion of a perfect running form, more the type of thing you mention.

Deranged wrote:

SPR wrote:

Identifying perfect form is impossible. That' s not to say that you cannot pick out some bits which are not beneficial e.g. foot strike a long way in front of COM - well that's clearly applying a breaking force so not good. Physics plays a major part in biomechanics. The challenge we have is in the fact we are living organisms - through repeated practice people can get very economical at a fundamentally inefficient movement, so is the end output going to be worth making the change.

Yes indeed. I don't think anyone has supported the notion of a perfect running form, more the type of thing you mention.

+1

None. None faster.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/well/move/the-best-running-stride-the-one-that-comes-naturally.html

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191212104646.htm

nunnery wrote:

None. None faster.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/02/well/move/the-best-running-stride-the-one-that-comes-naturally.htmlhttps://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/12/191212104646.htm

Those aren't proper studies, but even with other improper short term studies you can find the opposite...eg

In distance not much faster, and the longer distance you race, the less benefit you get from correcting form over other training. In general, you get a lot more out of focusing on training your pace and endurance than you do from form drills.

Some of you are ignoring the fact that the OP bounces too high. This is a waste of energy. How should it be corrected?

Please, don't just keep repeating the same old line that running form is natural and should never be corrected, because some runners who aren't sprinters do have this high bounce problem.

I think it would take a proper running physio or coach to take a look at them personally and figure firstly if it's excessive, and secondly try and figure out why that's happening.

stop and think for a moment wrote:

Kipboing Boing wrote:

If bouncing is bad why does everyone wear the boing boing pogo shoes now?

Because they are bouncing forwards more, not upwards.

You can't go forward without going up first.

Mantz has pristine lower body mechanics

I generally agree with the people on this thread that say proper running mechanics (ie- listening to sprint coaches) is a good idea. You can get faster with greater energy returns in this way.

However, I think the greatest advantage in having good form is that you will inevitably break down less often, and can get in higher quality training over longer periods of time that will lead to success.

In the most rudimentary of models, reaching your limit is a function of time and effort. Effort being a very broad term... If you have a more "efficient" or "biomechanically sound" form, you will reduce injury - be it issues in your posterior chain or areas where you tend to compensate. If you can have more consistent training, the cumulative effects will be the biggest factor in getting faster over time, not your form.

Of course, you can still get injured if you have good form by virtue of not strengthening yourself and becoming a robust athlete, or simply by training like a dumb*$$ and jumping into 80 mpw from nothing.. But ceteris paribus, the athlete with better form and a smart strategy will get faster than the athlete with poor form because they won't be as susceptible to injury from poor mechanics.

Training, over time, corrects your form.

If you run a lot, your form will get better.

Drills are good to do, but they are a supplement to running.

Thank you everyone again for the responses! I will work on my bouncing stride and try to convert that power into a longer stride, since that is what you seem to agree on. However, as far as I can tell from this advice, working on drills a few times a week couldn't effect my performance too much, so I will slowly implement drills at the end of my training to see if that helps.. Thanks again guys!-EGF

It's funny that people who do dynamic bounding and springing drills are usually the folks telling people to not bounce.

seems counterproductive wrote:

It's funny that people who do dynamic bounding and springing drills are usually the folks telling people to not bounce.

Not really.

Those things can open your stride up without having you over stride in a normal run.

How running hills can help your fitness but doesn't train you to run with proper form on a level surface.

Form is the most important parameter affecting improvement in marathon running.

Go watch a marathon where you can observe select pace groups at various parts of course. Watch them early on, then at 30km ish and then about 36 to 38km.

Report back on who are still keeping pace, and what the form of the ones who have dropped out are.

Good running form equals good economy, and in marathons that is the most important above a decent VO2 max and LT

in the majority of the cases form is simply a product of your fitness and power. Bad form is usually weakness in disguise. If someone has weak hamstrings, his form would be affected by that.

Ggggg wrote:

in the majority of the cases form is simply a product of your fitness and power. Bad form is usually weakness in disguise. If someone has weak hamstrings, his form would be affected by that.

Problem is, it's a catch-22. Don't fix your form if it's a problem, and you will probably get injured more often and never get the same fitness and power you could have had.

I find it strange people seem to think you can just run more, don't give a damn about anything else, and all will magically end up at their optimum.