8th Graders at NXN

I it fair that some teams can recruit the best runners from around the country to run relays? BULLIS.

Teams that compete against them (public schools) can only have athletes in a small area around their school.

The playing field is not level. Let the runners at these track factories compete in individual events, but keep them out of relays

They has a senior last year, Kelsey Chmiel, finished 2nd at NXN. Went to NC State where she was 22nd this year at NCAA XC. Pretty good development.

as long as every person has unique genetics, people are never on a level playing field when it comes to running. "NXN experience" is the least of our concerns

"Hahahaha!! Your high school kids got beat by our middle school kids!! Hahahaha!!" - NY

Every single time, NY people come on these threads and try to outright deny or downplay the fact that NY schools get a huge advantage by getting to have middle schoolers compete on the high school varsity team. In what world do you think it is not a huge advantage to have athletes get extra years competing on varsity and getting to experience meets like NXN. Explaining it by saying that NY athletes are just "better" or "tougher" is ridiculous as this does not happen with the boys.

Why is it so hard for you all to admit that there is an advantage to having middle school runners training/competing for a high school team?

NXN stinks wrote:

No they can't. NXN makes the team follow the state rules.

Yes they can. And so can an 8th grade soccer player who isn't even on the cross-country team.

Every Time wrote:

Every single time, NY people come on these threads and try to outright deny or downplay the fact that NY schools get a huge advantage by getting to have middle schoolers compete on the high school varsity team. In what world do you think it is not a huge advantage to have athletes get extra years competing on varsity and getting to experience meets like NXN. Explaining it by saying that NY athletes are just "better" or "tougher" is ridiculous as this does not happen with the boys.

Why is it so hard for you all to admit that there is an advantage to having middle school runners training/competing for a high school team?

Why on Earth are you so upset at the idea of a middle schooler getting additional years of training?

That's just intelligence at work.

Technically speaking, Illinois doesn't even allow coaches to train their teams during the off season, and Joe Newton from York had been penalized for doing so in the past. Guess what? All the teams skirt around the rules and train with their coaches during the off season.

Are you going to get angry at Illinois for training during the off season? Or perhaps you'll instead be angry at another state that freely allows coaches to meet students during the off season. Personally, I think it's a far greater advantage to be able to train kids year round than it is to have middle schoolers.

Of the 6 7th graders we had on our team not a single one of them was running by their senior year (many quit sooner). That level of intensity while your body is trying to develop is extremely harmful and from what I have seen it’s impossible to make it through without injury. Anyone who disagrees with this is insane.

Not necessarily. Girl's grow a lot earlier than boys (most start puberty around the age of 10). If you don't have issues with 9th grade boys, you shouldn't have issues with 8th grade girls as girls typically stop growing around 14, whereas boys typically don't stop growing until 16 (and certain demographics tend to mature much earlier). Based on the standards of when growth typically stops, a 8th grade girl is about the same as a 10th grade boy. If it is your belief that 8th grade girls shouldn't be allowed to run, then freshmen and sophomore boy shouldn't be allowed to run either. There are a number of track athletes that are youth record holders that turned into Olympians (Raevyn Rogers, Jordan Hasay, Suzy Favor Hamilton, etc.).

Perhaps what we should really be thinking about is the fact that Nike is allowing middle schoolers to be present at the post race dance. A lot of parents would be disappointed if they knew what was going on after dark in a testosterone fueled environment like NXN.

Every Time wrote:

Every single time, NY people come on these threads and try to outright deny or downplay the fact that NY schools get a huge advantage by getting to have middle schoolers compete on the high school varsity team. In what world do you think it is not a huge advantage to have athletes get extra years competing on varsity and getting to experience meets like NXN. Explaining it by saying that NY athletes are just "better" or "tougher" is ridiculous as this does not happen with the boys.

Why is it so hard for you all to admit that there is an advantage to having middle school runners training/competing for a high school team?

The rules are clear and the NY teams are in compliance with them. If you think it is such an advantage, lobby your high school federation to allow this in your state.

Since it's such an advantage, why doesn't Florida dominate girls XC?

I'm curious how many 7th and 8th grade boys participated in NXN this year? Is this an anomaly only seen in the girls race?

In the post-Mary Cain era we know what happens when young girls are given the massive training load needed to succeed at the NXN level - survivors are outliers. Teams who use undeveloped middle school girls are sacrificing their long-term health for the immediate victories. NXN level training loads on middle school girls will more likely than not lead to delayed physical development and girls will not create estrogen to get their period when they should and bone density is sacrificed. These coaches and clubs will not have to deal with fertility and bone density problem these athletes incur later in life and possibly even in a few years. Considering the recent highly publicized Nike system of abuse it does not surprise me they are looking the other way on this. It was apparent even that day when race organizers made freezing cold athletes stand in the rain in only their tiny singlets to wait for and receive their awards.......all-the-while race directors and announcers lallygagged around in winter gear and puffer jackets! Once again proving to EVERYONE watching that athletes are disposable to Nike (especially unregulated & unrepresented middle and high school athletes) and $$$$ over athletes still reins true to the core of the company. Shame on Nike and shame on the NXN promoters and announcers. Who's actually looking out for these kids? Racing advantage is not the issue here, but the long-term impact on the health of these very young athletes. How can you read about Mary Cain and other athletes now speaking up about this and not apply it to this situation? We are only just now starting to understand how physically damaging it really is for our young girls. Middle school children should NEVER be allowed to compete at NXN levels. More people need to speak up. #FixGirlsSports

What absolute rubbish.

A lot of girls flame out due to their change in body after puberty.

So let them win while they'r thin. It may be the only competitive experience in sports they'll ever get. What a bunch of whiners we have here. This sounds like you;d cheer the guy who ran out of the crowd and tackled the first lady to race at the Boston marathon.

And for the record. Men and women who reach elite level hammer their bodies. That is a price many are happy to pay. Its not your job as nanny, to hold them back.

Perhaps you need to have a good look at your training program.

High school kids should be about learning to race, and staying healthy. Obviously the coaching is inadequate

Asbel Kiprop wrote:

How about eliminating the altitude advantage? No HS XC team can come from above 1500’ or all sea level high schools must be given a 20-24 second head start!

???

None of the schools that placed on the podium were from altitude except Niwot girls. That's just one out of 6 podium teams.

And how many teams in the top 5 had junior high schools score? You missed the point.

I have considered the many arguments about overhyped youth sports, immediate rather than long term gratification, and the issues facing you g runners (especially girls).

I dont want any kid to unduly suffer from these issues. I dont want them overtrained. I dont want them un healthy. I dont want them to be rushed in their interests only to have emotional issues and unnecessary pressures at early ages.

I believe a healthy approach to competitive running for young kids can be done. I dont know if it is executed but i know it is possible. In general i would not recommend the junior high kids to run varsity races during the season. However i belive if monitored correctly it is ok for some to do this and still have a healthy approach. It is up to parents and good coaching to be wise, informed, and patient.

The problem i have with those arguing about junior high runners at nxn is that they argue it is “unfair”. This really means that those arguing this point are part of the problem as winning/success is over emphasized. Instead the only conversation should be about the health of the you g runners and what is best for them.

When I was in high school (Shenendehowa), I ran one varsity race as a 7th grader (when we were 2nd in the country although it was a dual meet) and ran dual meets and championship races on varsity and freshman races as an 8th grader (we ran the Federation meet that year and I was our fifth guy). My sophomore year, we were 2nd at the Federation meet with our top five being sophomores so I don't think this is a really fair description saying that AA NYS schools shouldn't have a full scoring team with sophomores or younger. NYS has always allowed middle schoolers to run on a varsity team as long as they pass a physical (whose conditions depend on what sport the middle schooler is trying to compete in). As others have pointed out, NXN allows the "clubs" to use their state federations rules, so this is really a non-issue. It is weird how New York State schools have always had middle schoolers on their teams (especially on the girls side) at NXN and this is now a big issue (I'm guessing it has to do with other things going on at Nike right now).

From my experience a high % of Saratoga girls run throughout high school even if their performance may plateau a little bit. For the record my junior year was worse than my sophomore year then I improved my senior year, I sucked in college and got better post-collegiate so plateaus do happen people...

A high school event should not include 8th graders, or 6th graders, or 7th graders etc. If a state wants to include them in their rules that is a state choice. However, at a national event billed as a "high school" event only grades 9-12 should be allowed. That makes complete sense. No knock against Saratoga, but I think limiting a high school event to high school grades is reasonable.