Worth running for NAU?

Fatherly Advice wrote:

Here is some adult advice to young people across the country. No one cares where you went to school. In fact, you'll barely be asked where you went to school as you get older. People only care if you have a degree. And that's probably only for your first few jobs in your 20s. It's all about who you know, what skills you have, and work experience.

So true.

Obviously we are all just expressing our opinions but I agree.

The statement from the poster on page 1 "degrees matter" is simply a myth promoted by the name brand universities to continue the illusion. The education you get and the job you get after you graduate is all based on the individual. She/he can get a great education and job no matter what university they might go to.

So a student athlete should go to whatever university they feel best fits...it should not be based on a name.

This isn’t universally true and I suspect it depends a lot on your profession. I sit on the admissions committee for a top tier medical school. We definitely consider where you graduated from. Grades at a low tier university simply don’t mean as much as a top tier school

Fatherly Advice wrote:

Here is some adult advice to young people across the country. No one cares where you went to school. In fact, you'll barely be asked where you went to school as you get older. People only care if you have a degree. And that's probably only for your first few jobs in your 20s. It's all about who you know, what skills you have, and work experience.

This^

I read an article that said about 40% of Harvard students were there simply because they were either athletes or legacy admissions. If anything this admissions scandal pulled back the curtain on the charade that is the Ivy League.

If you are bad at your job nobody is going to keep you around because you graduated from Stanford.

Tribe wrote:

This isn’t universally true and I suspect it depends a lot on your profession. I sit on the admissions committee for a top tier medical school. We definitely consider where you graduated from. Grades at a low tier university simply don’t mean as much as a top tier school

non-name brand wrote:

So true.

Obviously we are all just expressing our opinions but I agree.

The statement from the poster on page 1 "degrees matter" is simply a myth promoted by the name brand universities to continue the illusion. The education you get and the job you get after you graduate is all based on the individual. She/he can get a great education and job no matter what university they might go to.

So a student athlete should go to whatever university they feel best fits...it should not be based on a name.

I think your example is totally correct, Tribe. But I also think it is a good representation of what another poster said, this is true for less than 1% of people out there. It's such a small number that want to go to a top tier medical school, and only a tiny fraction of those who want to do it are capable of it. I think a top name school is right for them.

So you think those Duke BBall players are getting much of a degree ..?

I will give a slight different take.

The school matters and should but it should be about whether the teachers are actually good at teaching. Every school has good and bad teachers. Everyone runs into some crazy nuts in schools and it is a good idea to try to avoid them. Targeting schools that have the fewest percentage of crazies is also a good idea.

At the end of the day did you feel like the teacher did a good job in helping you to learn the material that was the objective.

I looked at some of the material used at Standford for example for computer science and found it much simpler to understand than the material that was issued in my undergraduate program. Having understandable material for very complex topics is very helpful. It should make sense that Standford have good teachers because they have the most money to spend on them.

Like everything else this is just a guideline and not a 100% truth.

Speaking as an engineer with 35 years experience, a Stanford degree will not guarantee you the job but it will get you one of the interview slots 10 times out of 10.

the knowledge room wrote:

Do you think it is worth someone going to NAU over a school like Wisconsin or Villanova etc, and winning national championships in cross country but sacrificing the academics and the overall schooling experience? Even if you want to become a professional runner, you will eventually have to fall back on your degree. Is it worth going to NAU??????

You say this as if Wisconsin has never won a national cross country championship before.

I guess if you want an inside look at what goes on in the NAU program, FloTrack apparently has a series coming up about their season.

https://www.flotrack.org/events/6603442-nau-running-with-the-boys-ep-1/schedule

You forgot UofA! The best school in AZ, and Tucson is a great city for living and running. Flagstaff better in the summer for sure though and NAU a much better XC team, obviously.

What is Gabe Jennings doing with his Stanford degree?

you know what looks really good on a resume? D1 cross country national champion. most people are aware of the work ethic it takes to make it in distance running. kids who make it through will have no problem with career success if they are motivated to find it.

Was a professor at a top 20-30 ish school. If you are an excellent student, NAU is probably not a good fit as it will be harder to get in top graduate schools from there (it is ranked 300-400).

If you want to get a decent degree and don't have big graduate aspirations, schools like this are typically fine-it matters what you put into it.

And if you are just a "good" student, NAU is not a bad fit as often these schools have more pragmatic majors that will help get you a job. My University has the #2 ranked English department and although the students are incredibly bright I didn't see a lot of job offers.

Occasionally, we would have graduate students who came from the middle tier schools like NAU. Our admissions did a pretty good job of figuring out the students had talent. Several went on to good careers, but all were slow starters. They simply had to catch up and adjust to a level of work that they had never seen before. In particular, advanced math skills were lacking.

Ivy schools, MIT, Michigan, Cal, UCLA, Chicago, UNC, Georgia Tech, Wisconsin, Duke grads etc. hit the ground running as the top 10 experts in their field knew them and recommended them.

By the way, as you might guess, the faculty at top schools are very bookish and very little tolerance for frat types. It always amazed me that some worked at schools where football and frat boys were a big deal. You would think they would like the mountain air of Flagstaff and its non-preppy lifestyle, but it comes down to money. Prestigious schools have fairly large endowed professorships while Flagstaff does not.

Along these lines, it does explain why places like Boulder have far more prestigious faculty than undergraduate admissions. If you want to run and still keep the higher education doors open, this might fit the bill.

If you're asking you shouldn't go

iowakidscanrun wrote:

Great question. Probably depends on the kid. Lots of good academic schools with good programs. On the other hand you don’t have to go to a top academic school to have good career options if you’re motivated.

I agree. It doesn't matter where you to go school, it matters what you major in. For example, an engineering degree is going to make you pretty successful regardless of where you went to school.

First, you get a great lifestyle there, terrific running, and the chance at multiple national championships in cross country. That would be a bragging point for decades and even better something to be satisfied with. Few in their careers will exceed that.

Second, undergraduate GPA matters a lot more to graduate school admission than undergraduate pedigree. I have seen countless graduates from small liberal arts colleges where they truly stood out in top jobs in the field because they were big fish in a small pond and got great grades and recommendations sufficient to get them to Ivies and other top schools for graduate school. They adjust GPA in grad school admissions for the quality of the school but not that much; I think it may actually be an advantage from many better schools where the competition is going to be there from top prep school feeders.

Third, NAU does fine in earnings, early career avg. at 48k, midcareer at $90k. That'll be most affected by choice of career.

Wisconsin, Academics really? Look, unless your are going Ivy, Stanford, Maybe Vandy in the south does it really matter where you get a degree from when your looking for a job. Sure the alumni networking goes on, but who in the hell really goes to school to better one's mind? In the long run it's about getting a job. If one has a degree from say N.C State in Econ and one has a degree from say, Nova, is that school name on the degree what getting you a job? But seriously...Wisconsin?

I heard Drew Bosley wanted to go to Wisconsin but could not get in academically. NAU must have either been his second choice or maybe even the third.

That said even places like Florida Gulf Coast are going to have resources for top achieving students. If not the right amount of resources they would fall back to an expanded network among faculty with connections to other top institutions with those resources. Though many are bright in running most people here are not in the conversation for it to matter.

Drum Roll wrote:

What is Gabe Jennings doing with his Stanford degree?

Gabe Jennings is a lawyer now and is doing work in China.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but 3:35.90, a degree from Stanford and a law degree from Oregon is better than the sub-14 5k PRs occupying the anonymous here at letsrun.