Didn't really expect her to medal either, but the race played right into her strengths. Running hard and steady with gradual increase in pace. She has great stamina, but can't kick well or shift gears.
NativeSon wrote:
I didn't expect Tsegay to medal but she did very well.
“To come into this, PR by three seconds, get the American record, and it not be enough to medal, it’s kind of a hard pill to swallow,” Houlihan said.
Wrong thinking. In distance events, nearly all PRs and ARs are set in races in which the athlete is dragged along to a fast time by faster athletes.
hgchgc wrote:
“To come into this, PR by three seconds, get the American record, and it not be enough to medal, it’s kind of a hard pill to swallow,” Houlihan said.
Wrong thinking. In distance events, nearly all PRs and ARs are set in races in which the athlete is dragged along to a fast time by faster athletes.
Yeah, this poster said it. Since when do ARs win races? Didn't various runners PR? Even some in prelim rounds. How far back was Molly Huddle for any of her ARs? A relatively fast race in which the favorites and leaders don't PR is often the time that 5th place, etc do.
It's hard to swallow because she didn't imagine that she could destroy the American record without medaling, that three others would be that much faster. I don't know if there were more than a handful not doping in that race, but Hassan was just absurd and you can't know for certain that the natural, Faith Kipyegon, and Tsegay, coming from countries with limited doping testing and with agents like Hermens, are clean as well. Houlihan was in shape to do this last year and hadn't looked at this level this year but she got the perfect vehicle to do it.
Really PRed closer to two seconds, than three.
Schumacher+Salazar wrote:
MohammedAA wrote:
Both and.
All three are doped to the gills.
Of course, so is Houlihan.
I totally agree. Houlihan is a Nike athlete and her jump in personal bests are too coincidental for her to be clean. We must not forget Jerry Schumacher was brought in by Salazar after his heart attack. He worked with AlSal for a while before they parted ways. He's as dirty as AlSal, and so are his athletes.
This is actually the best argument that Salazar is clean. Salazar’s workout routine is proved to work by BTC.
Right on the money wrote:
hgchgc wrote:
“To come into this, PR by three seconds, get the American record, and it not be enough to medal, it’s kind of a hard pill to swallow,” Houlihan said.
Wrong thinking. In distance events, nearly all PRs and ARs are set in races in which the athlete is dragged along to a fast time by faster athletes.
Yeah, this poster said it. Since when do ARs win races?
Four days ago.
Right on the money wrote:
...Since when do ARs win races?
several times in the last few days - M800, W400H, M4x1, come to mind without even thinking about it
But not this day.
zxcvxzcv wrote:
It's hard to swallow because she didn't imagine that she could destroy the American record without medaling, that three others would be that much faster. I don't know if there were more than a handful not doping in that race, but Hassan was just absurd and you can't know for certain that the natural, Faith Kipyegon, and Tsegay, coming from countries with limited doping testing and with agents like Hermens, are clean as well. Houlihan was in shape to do this last year and hadn't looked at this level this year but she got the perfect vehicle to do it.
I get sick of hearing this crap. This was a fast race on a fast track. Stafford, from Canada, ran 3:56.12 and she just broke 4:00 for the first time 1 month ago. She is probably the one who has improved the most and nobody that knows her thinks she would even dream of cheating. She trains with Muir in Scotland, so has made a breakthrough. Many of these ladies have been at this for a long time and have gradually improved - that even goes for Hassan, who ran 1:56 many years ago. Houlihan and especially Simpson have been slightly under 4 for awhile - especially Simpson. Faith Kipyegon ran 4:03 in 2012 and has run sub 4:00 the past 6 years in a row. She has been extremely consistent. You can't blame every runner from Kenya just because their association is poor at testing. She only set a personal best by 1.5 seconds.
zxcvxzcv wrote:
It's hard to swallow because she didn't imagine that she could destroy the American record without medaling, that three others would be that much faster. I don't know if there were more than a handful not doping in that race, but Hassan was just absurd and you can't know for certain that the natural, Faith Kipyegon, and Tsegay, coming from countries with limited doping testing and with agents like Hermens, are clean as well. Houlihan was in shape to do this last year and hadn't looked at this level this year but she got the perfect vehicle to do it.
Shelby was the most obvious doper in the race, come on. I don't think Kipyegon and Tsegay are clean either, but they at least have a gradual progression from the beginning of their career. Shelby's progression is the following:
2019 3:54.99 Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 05 OCT 2019
2018 3:57.34 Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 05 JUL 2018
2017 4:06.22 Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 20 AUG 2017
2016 4:03.39 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 28 MAY 2016
2015 4:09.62 Liège (BEL) 15 JUL 2015
Ridiculous, has to be just like DeBues-Stafford (second most obvious doper of the final) on some really good stuff
fortherecord wrote:
This is actually the best argument that Salazar is clean. Salazar’s workout routine is proved to work by BTC.
I don't think they do the same training. From an interview in 2011 with Salazar (can't post link thanks to anonymous poster restrictions): "Jerry and my group are definitely different. We both train out of the Nike campus, but he could just as well or I could just as well be in another state. They are a totally separate group. So my group is known as the Oregon Project, because the Oregon Project was built around my philosophies and my beginnings in coaching eight years ago. And Jerry's group has a totally different identity, and he has totally philosophies of training and so forth. "
BTC doping group wrote:
Shelby was the most obvious doper in the race, come on...
Shelby's progression is the following:
2019 3:54.99 Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 05 OCT 2019
2018 3:57.34 Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 05 JUL 2018
2017 4:06.22 Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 20 AUG 2017
2016 4:03.39 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 28 MAY 2016
2015 4:09.62 Liège (BEL) 15 JUL 2015
Ridiculous, has to be just like DeBues-Stafford (second most obvious doper of the final) on some really good stuff
Gabriella Stafford's progression is even more sudden this year:
2015 4:07.44
2016 4:06:53
2017 4:03.55
2018 4:05.83
2019 3:56.12
If an African either of their age (26 and 24) had this sudden progression, people would go crazy.
dprat wrote:
Sorry, Sledge, that's simply not true. There was a reeking stink around Lance for many, many years, in fact from the time of his first Tour victory.
It was from the peloton.
What this race for Houlihan shows is that the nearly 4 consecutive months of altitude training she did with BTC in Park City, with very few races this year and none since USA nationals, worked and worked very well.
Something else to consider: this is only her 2nd year as a professional racing the 1500m as her primary event. She focused on the 5k in 2016 & 2017 after leaving Arizona State in 2015.
BTC's live-high-train-low-race-hardly-at-all approach has worked really well so far (huge prs for Houlihan, Schweizer & Hall, only mediocre result from Frerichs). Centro & Lomong still on tap . . . and Lopez could become the biggest surprise of the meet.
YMMV wrote:
Shelby was clearly in better shape than her 3:57 PR indicated last year. Dipping under 3:55 with this type of pacing is right on the money. No way she is on anything. I think Simpson would agree and she is as skeptical as anyone on the planet. Shelby just has all the tools and a great coach. Centro will run well tomorrow, might even medal.
Simpson is not the voice of reason. She is a scatter brain with limited media poise . When Gault asked her if she used Dr Brown , her facial expression tells , didn't require an answer.
BTC doping group wrote:
zxcvxzcv wrote:
It's hard to swallow because she didn't imagine that she could destroy the American record without medaling, that three others would be that much faster. I don't know if there were more than a handful not doping in that race, but Hassan was just absurd and you can't know for certain that the natural, Faith Kipyegon, and Tsegay, coming from countries with limited doping testing and with agents like Hermens, are clean as well. Houlihan was in shape to do this last year and hadn't looked at this level this year but she got the perfect vehicle to do it.
Shelby was the most obvious doper in the race, come on. I don't think Kipyegon and Tsegay are clean either, but they at least have a gradual progression from the beginning of their career. Shelby's progression is the following:
2019 3:54.99 Khalifa International Stadium, Doha (QAT) 05 OCT 2019
2018 3:57.34 Pontaise, Lausanne (SUI) 05 JUL 2018
2017 4:06.22 Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 20 AUG 2017
2016 4:03.39 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 28 MAY 2016
2015 4:09.62 Liège (BEL) 15 JUL 2015
Ridiculous, has to be just like DeBues-Stafford (second most obvious doper of the final) on some really good stuff
fortherecord wrote:
This is actually the best argument that Salazar is clean. Salazar’s workout routine is proved to work by BTC.
I don't think they do the same training. From an interview in 2011 with Salazar (can't post link thanks to anonymous poster restrictions): "Jerry and my group are definitely different. We both train out of the Nike campus, but he could just as well or I could just as well be in another state. They are a totally separate group. So my group is known as the Oregon Project, because the Oregon Project was built around my philosophies and my beginnings in coaching eight years ago. And Jerry's group has a totally different identity, and he has totally philosophies of training and so forth. "
Idiot post. Nothing "wrong" with that progression. She was probably in 3:55 shape last year.
VMMYYMMV wrote:
Shelby was the first white runner across the line, therefore she is clean,period.
Fixed it for you.
We know what you meant.
Flying Carpet Salesman wrote:
YMMV wrote:
Shelby was clearly in better shape than her 3:57 PR indicated last year. Dipping under 3:55 with this type of pacing is right on the money. No way she is on anything. I think Simpson would agree and she is as skeptical as anyone on the planet. Shelby just has all the tools and a great coach. Centro will run well tomorrow, might even medal.
Simpson is not the voice of reason. She is a scatter brain with limited media poise . When Gault asked her if she used Dr Brown , her facial expression tells , didn't require an answer.
Of course Jenny is going to be defensive on that. Irrelevant towards Shelby.
My point is that she doesn't hesitate to vocally criticize people in other groups, and she has not had anything bad to say about Shelby or BTC. She would know better than you or me since she is her competitor and races her often (well as often as Jerry lets Shelby race)
Sledge_Hammer wrote:
YMMV wrote:
No way she is on anything. I think Simpson would agree and she is as skeptical as anyone on the planet. Shelby just has all the tools and a great coach. Centro will run well tomorrow, might even medal.
If she's an African though, you guys will be accusing her of doping.
And Centro was coached by Salazar as well.
Not true. But Uganda is another example of the Kenya, Ethiopia, Algeria, etc. where good runners are found and then doped up and allowed to do so by whoever makes money on it.
People spend far too much money as pro sports fans like NFL, MLB, Futbol and more.
Few American children know what it's like to grow up barefoot and playing on grass fields, etc. They are coddled...
Children who get physical activity today do not just go out and run, climb, jump, build, etc. like many of us did. Even 3-year-olds are in organized sports. It's ridiculous.
YMMV wrote:
Idiot post. Nothing "wrong" with that progression. She was probably in 3:55 shape last year.
2018 3:55 YMMV Dreamland (LRC) 2018
2017 4:06.22 Alexander Stadium, Birmingham (GBR) 20 AUG 2017
2016 4:03.39 Hayward Field, Eugene, OR (USA) 28 MAY 2016
Totally normal progression, yes. Absolutely nothing to see there.