I think I have the timing right.
Ritz had a best of 13:16 for 5K, joined NOP and dropped to 12:56 within a few months. That's 20 seconds from an already maxed out effort from a very tough runner. The pre-NOP Ritz would be early into the final turn when the NOP-Ritz hit the finish line.
What was different? An extra 30 seconds rest during workouts? 9 hours sleep instead of 8? If what Salazar provided was legal, I think we would all prosper from doing the same.
been around wrote:
Dril wrote:
this is the only appropriate hot take. golden boy ritz gets a pass who as actually around during the doping and admitted to it. yet brazier and other current nop runners who arrived 3-5 years post the bad acts are some how "tainted".
ritz was doped to the gils.
When I see your user name I know I'm about to read something dumb. You never fail me. By the way, according to the report, Ritz never participated in anything illegal.
The altered page from Dr. Brown showed only 45ml despite Ritz himself saying it was an hour. Ritz admitted to that as well as taking synthetic thyroid meds despite having normal levels.
Ban Rupp and Hasay wrote:
Rupp should have been banned too- no way did he not have knowledge. He and Jordan just play dumb
So much jealousy on here when the athletes have NOT been implicated AT ALL. Steph Bruce, Kara? Is that you?
been around wrote:
Dril wrote:
this is the only appropriate hot take. golden boy ritz gets a pass who as actually around during the doping and admitted to it. yet brazier and other current nop runners who arrived 3-5 years post the bad acts are some how "tainted".
ritz was doped to the gils.
When I see your user name I know I'm about to read something dumb. You never fail me. By the way, according to the report, Ritz never participated in anything illegal.
According to the report, none of the athletes did anything illegal except Magness. People covered their tracks, Salazar included, but the truth is staring you right in the face if you have eyes to see.
People like to be all nuanced when its their golden boy or girl on the line, but NOP and its athletes are dopers and they all have astericks next to their name. Don't associate with bad actors if you don't want to be called a bad actor.
Ritz's case is especially troubling, and what little he did to try to distance himself from it near the end counts for nothing.
Scorpion_runner wrote:
Ritz gets a pass because he questioned the legality of everything, but was told that it was legal, and he cooperated with everything. And he moved away from the group. Him and Kara get a pass.
Nope. Ritz does not get a pass. If he tests positive for a PED that NOP injected him with, WADA doesn't care if he didn't know or questioned the legality of the injection. Athletes are responsible for the substances in their bodies. Ritz is lucky that a paper trail doesn't lead to him.
dopenhein wrote:
The altered page from Dr. Brown showed only 45ml despite Ritz himself saying it was an hour. Ritz admitted to that as well as taking synthetic thyroid meds despite having normal levels.
The original projection in following the Magness protocol was for the process to take 4-5 hours. That face that his only took an hour is completely consistent with the idea that he took a much smaller injection.
Taking synthetic thyroid meds is completely legal under the WADA code. It may be stupid, but it is not in any way a doping violation.
NOPe wrote:
According to the report, none of the athletes did anything illegal except Magness. People covered their tracks, Salazar included, but the truth is staring you right in the face if you have eyes to see.
Well, USADA thinks otherwise, and presented its evidence to the American Arbitration Association Panel, who voted 2 : 1 that the evidence was not sufficient for a conviction. So, your statement is quite optimistic, to say the least.
See for example page 61 of the AAA Salazar Decision:
[USADA contends:]
that on December 1, 2011, “three days after the infusion given to Magness, Dathan Ritzenhein was instructed to travel to Houston to receive the same infusion from Respondent that Steve Magness had received.”234 USADA contends that despite Respondent’s claim that the original plan was not to give Mr. Ritzenhein an infusion in excess of 50 mL, Dr. Brown told Mr. Ritzenhein that the infusion “takes about 4-5 hours,” the same amount of time as Mr. Magness’ over-the-limit infusion.235
(q) that Respondent’s December 3, 2011 request to USADA to ask for permission importantly does not identify the volume of the IV infusion that Mr. Magness received. USADA argues that “the emails of Respondent, Dr. Brown and Mr. Ritzenhein from December, 2011, are all consistent, pointing unequivocally to the conclusion that one liter Magness-type L-carnitine infusions were planned for other NOP athletes, i.e., the 4-5 ‘elite athletes’ for whom Respondent sought permission to give infusions (after all, Mr. Ritzenhein was instructed by Respondent to immediately get down to Houston for his infusion days before the inquiry to USADA was made).”236
(see also Rupp and Tara)
Later on page 72:
A majority of the Panel finds that USADA has not met its burden of proof with respect to the Attempted Administration charge as it relates to the NOP Athletes
wrong on the facts, wrong on the law wrote:
The original projection in following the Magness protocol was for the process to take 4-5 hours. That face that his only took an hour is completely consistent with the idea that he took a much smaller injection.
Yes, about 20 - 25%. Magness got 1 liter, so by extension Ritz 200 - 250 mL, while only 50 mL were allowed.
The interesting thing is that Salazar wants to appeal the American arbitration's decision. Going in front of international judges, really? They might trust him less, and consider the evidence that Ritz and Rupp etc. also received "illegal" injections as sufficient.
In that case, Ritz and Rupp should get their four year bans, starting late 2011 / early 2012.
casual obsever wrote:
wrong on the facts, wrong on the law wrote:
The original projection in following the Magness protocol was for the process to take 4-5 hours. That face that his only took an hour is completely consistent with the idea that he took a much smaller injection.
Yes, about 20 - 25%. Magness got 1 liter, so by extension Ritz 200 - 250 mL, while only 50 mL were allowed.
It is completely unclear how much the Magness protocol involved. Magness himself testified that he received 250 ml. Dr. Brown testified that Magness received 500 or 1000 mL. The panel did not reach a conclusion on this other than that this was over the limit. How much over the limit was not important.
been around wrote:
Dril wrote:
this is the only appropriate hot take. golden boy ritz gets a pass who as actually around during the doping and admitted to it. yet brazier and other current nop runners who arrived 3-5 years post the bad acts are some how "tainted".
ritz was doped to the gils.
When I see your user name I know I'm about to read something dumb. You never fail me. By the way, according to the report, Ritz never participated in anything illegal.
ritz admits to receiving infusion. claims ignorance. yet ritz is a victim.
other nopers show up years after the allegations, have a different coach, and are tainited somehow....
i'm the dumb one? holy smokes.
Newsflash: Just because someone doesn't test positive, doesn't mean they are clean.
It's ironic, Americans on Letsrun bash Kenya and Ethiopia for being doping havens and then right here in America an actual doping haven was uncovered. You'd have to be the most naive person in the world to think he was testing PEDs on his kids and not using them on his athletes.
Alberto said, 1 liter (point 101). Brown said "probably a liter" (point 102).
I'm enjoying the rich irony of HDP tweeting about how proud they are to be with Brooks after the news came to light yesterday yet they brought on Ritz because they don't have any real studs.
sbeefyk2 wrote:
Newsflash: Just because someone doesn't test positive, doesn't mean they are clean.
It's ironic, Americans on Letsrun bash Kenya and Ethiopia for being doping havens and then right here in America an actual doping haven was uncovered. You'd have to be the most naive person in the world to think he was testing PEDs on his kids and not using them on his athletes.
Maybe because Kenya and Ethiopia actually get positive test in distance running and the fact that this case still doesn't actually proof he provided athletes PED's.
HansonsBroz wrote:
I'm enjoying the rich irony of HDP tweeting about how proud they are to be with Brooks after the news came to light yesterday yet they brought on Ritz because they don't have any real studs.
Where is this on Twitter?
Not seeing this wrote:
HansonsBroz wrote:
I'm enjoying the rich irony of HDP tweeting about how proud they are to be with Brooks after the news came to light yesterday yet they brought on Ritz because they don't have any real studs.
Where is this on Twitter?
"HDP" must mean "Hansons Distance Project". Likely this:
https://twitter.com/hansonsrun/status/1178972210133950464"I understand that gloating is unattractive. But today, more than ever, I am thankful for our 16 year long partnership with @brooksrunning."
from literally the first result when you google "hansons distance project twitter".
NOP Theme Song!
All of this has been known for a long time, nothing magical about USADA making the ruling, just a very very slow process. How you interpret it depends mostly on the lens you look at the world. It seems appropriate that this happens at the same time as the Trump Ukraine story, it's all in plain sight and people will have polar opposite conclusions based mostly on how they feel about the parties involved and will choose the facts to fit the conclusion that they want to reach.
Didn’t letsrun have ads up promoting that L-caratine stuff up all the time...where are those now? I’d get me some!
The next it’s gonna be high doses of
Cbd is doping